a REAL electric supercharger

[evolutionmovement]

I thought cars were going to jump to 48 volts?
Electronic valve control is different than this as you're replacing one parasitic drag for another, but one that is infinitely variable within the confines of the system. My only concern is reliability. I would also like to see rotary valves actuated by servo motors, as you're talking excellent variability, yet minimal power useage compared to eaither the conventional valvetrain or even the solenoid actuated valves with the only concern for reliability really being sealing, which I've read had been fixed by two seperate companies.

In terms of small displacement disposable Euro cars (the kind that wouldn't sell here anyway) this may be a decent idea if it works and when they go to a higher voltage system. How many old people driving V8s at 20 mph do you see?

That said I think there are better alternatives, like more variable valvetrains especially in combo with displacement on demand for larger engines and more effiecient transmissions (like well-developed CVTs).

Steve

[BAC5.2]

I'm with Steve, there are just better alternatives.

Sure, this could work, say you get 100hp and 60mpg. No problem. About on par with a gasoline hybrid electric Prius.

Why not correctly Turbo the Gasoline Hybrid Electric Civic? Now you've got a stout, I4 (which would be bulletproof, as inline designs are inately so), making power from what would otherwise be waste materials, and STILL running a variable valvetrain (i-VTEC), and an electric motor. Mate that to Honda's newer CVT's, and you've got an uber-efficient, and relatively powerful car for the weight.

Better yet, why not Hybrid-ify any of the Turbo Diesel sedans out there? Now THAT is a good idea. Take full advantage of the high exhaust flow of a diesel engine to make power on demand (as it's being done now), but back that up with an electric drive system. Mate THAT to AUDI's current forgings in CVT technology, and you'll have one HELL of a car.

I'll give you a few examples to chew on.

Toyota is prototyping a Turbo Diesel Hybrid called the ES3 (cubed). It gets 104.3 miles per gallon on a 1.4L Turbo Diesel Hybrid engine with a CVT. In full-diesel form (identical to the Hybrid plant, the hybrid plant having obvious electrical power backup with regenerative braking) the car gets from 0 to 60 in 12.9 seconds, just about on par with most full sized SUV's (my fathers Nissan Xterra hits 60 in around 10 seconds, and gets the gas mileage of my SS, which gets to 60 in just over half that time).

I think Diesel is the next step towards a more efficient mode of transportation. It's unfortunate that most American's will not adopt said efficiency vehicles until they are at the level to compete with moderate performance cars.

Steve - I hope you don't mind my new sig-quote...

[BAC5.2]

Oh, I should probably add. The Z06 Corvette gets 30mpg on the highway. A TDI Hybrid, with D.O.D. and a CVT would be unstopable in the gas mileage quest.

[evolutionmovement]

Phil - I don't care. I wrote it thinking someone would appreciate it. After all the comments I heard from people about connecting someone to the words, I figure I must have a reputation to live up to. Speaking of which, my friend in NYC is starting an internet column that he wants me to contribute to. Hopefully it can help me get two feet in the door with a publisher.

I think I'm the most quoted for sigs.

Steve

[BAC5.2]

I totally agree with the anaolgy you were making. I just thought it was funny that you covered your ass. You KNOW Hardy or someone (me...) would have made a comment about it .

Awesome about the internet column. You've gotta link us to it if you start getting "published" in it.

[vrg3]

I'm not gonna comment at length about this, but it's worth noting that a setup that consumes power when it's not needed to produce more power when it is needed can work. In fact, that's a big part of how a lot of intercoolers function -- they cool the intake charge when you're on boost and then they warm the charge when you're off boost, bringing the intercooler core temperature back down so the cycle can repeat.

Like, don't a lot of people switch from mechanical cooling fans to electric units, for greater efficiency when it's needed?

[BAC5.2]

I don't know that the cooling fan scenario is quite on par with this concern.

And isn't it all about minimizing the amount of power consumed when it's not needed? It seems a 2000 watt fan would be slightly more parasitic than a turbo, when off-boost.

[scottzg]

Why would a big fan be parastitic off boost? Under normal driving conditions, it's not powered at all. The turbo is being spun slowly by the exhaust; still robbing power. The fan is an obstruction in the intake path, providing the engine with less air. Less air= less fuel burnt= less power, not an issue until you are at WOT, except at WOT, the fan is operational!

The turbo, when boosting, is consuming power in the form of creating backpressure. This is not a horrible thing since it's allowing the engine to create more power than it consumes to run the device. It's just ineffecient. The fan is not working against itself when boosting.

[BAC5.2]

The e-fan is charging itself off-boost. Parasitic electrical draw. Converting from mechanical, to electrical, back to mechanical energy, there's bound to be a significant loss.

With a turbo, there IS a fan in the intake and exhaust. That's no different than the e-charger (there is an idle fan sitting in the intake path).

The turbo is being spooled under no-boost applications, so the amount that it's actually in the way is minimal. Like I said, I get the same gas mileage as Steve on the highway.

As far as creating backpressure, well, that's not really that big of a concern. A turbo is just a compressor, and when it's run within it's efficiency range, and the engine is designed for it (with a properly ground cam), the amount of backpressure is inconsequential.

It's going to take a LOT to convince me that the 5.1psi is worth the price you pay for that boost.