93 NA Legacy Auto Trans Oddity... 2-3

[frood]

First, I've read all the other posts but many people were not complaining of the same thing I am experienceing.

Here's the basic idea:
1-2 Firm
2-3 sometimes soft...about 2-3 sec to engage
3-4 Firm

Always the 2-3 shift is good when I floor it from standstill; it shifts fine. Sometimes, when I'm going really gently-normal, it shifts just perfectly. But in the 'inbetween' like normal to medium pedal I get a soft shift beginning, then a normal feeling engagement about 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds later.

Additionally, I found upon inspection that I cannot measure the trans fluid correcly. It's all bubbly. I tried checking it with the engine on in 'P', then with the e-brake on in 'R'. It was all over the dipstick, and had bubbles like mad. not foamy, just like, 2-3 mm bubbles. Are you not supposed to check ATF when the engine is running? All the other Auto's I've ever had said you were. Smells like it could use a change, but it's not quite burned like others i've smelled.

My transmission is this:
tz102za2aa - is there another way I should Identify it? I hear a lot of people talk about the

So what can I do?
1) Is there a servo that is sticky? If so can it be replaced easily-ish?

2) Is this a band? If so, can it be replaced easily-ish?

3) How tough are Suby transmissions to pull? Looks like there's a TON of room in there! (Compared to my 87 Supra) Any online guides to doing this?

4) It's still really drivable; how long might I have before the 2-3 shift goes away entirely?

5) If this is irreparable without rebuild, anyone in the Pittsburgh area have a low milage 1993 Suby trans they wanna sell? =)

6) What Years/Models can I look for trannies from? As I understand, 1990-1994 was the range of my Suby style. But can I get a 1995 Subaru transmission? I stand a better chance of getting a newer, low milage, trans.

Thanks tons. =)

[Legacy777]

The lag you are experiencing is most likely caused by a worn brake band. You might be able to adjust/tighten it up slightly....but it won't be a cure all.

To check the fluid, you need to have the car running and at normal operating temp. Park on a level surface. Cylce through all the gears, from P to 1 and back to P. Now check the level.

If you still can't read it.....you may need to change the fluid. What does it look & smell like?

[frood]

To check the fluid, you need to have the car running and at normal operating temp. Park on a level surface. Cylce through all the gears, from P to 1 and back to P. Now check the level.

If you still can't read it.....you may need to change the fluid. What does it look & smell like?

It's kind of _faintly_ reddish, unusually more yellow, smells only a little burned, but definitely seems thinner than I'm used to.

I'm planning on flushing the system if I can figure out the size of the drain bolt on the trans pan. (start with the cheap fix, work up to replace trans) You happen to know the thread pitch and diameter? I'm going to just drill a 5mm diameter hole in the bolt I buy, screw it in, then add fluid about as fast as it leaves until it's a nicer color and consistency. Mebbe I'll just use a cork. =)

[frood]

I found this description of the 4EAT transmission workings:

Band Servo Operation
The band is applied in 2nd and 4th gears by a two stage servo which is
controlled by accumulators.
In order to obtain second gear the servo is in the 2-Apply
mode. Hydraulic pressure from the 2A accumulator pushes
the 1-2 piston UPWARD which tightens the band.
****>For third gear, the servo is in the 3-Release mode. In this
case, hydraulic pressure from the 3R accumulator aided by
the return spring pushes the 1-2 piston DOWNWARD in
order to release the band.<****
For fourth gear 4-Apply mode, hydraulic pressure from the
4A accumulator pushes the 3-4 piston UPWARD in order to
apply the band.

Note the **** section, So, does this more or less state that my problem may be with the band actually not disengaging? That the solenoid, initially in 2-Apply mode, physically engaging the band, is now attempting to go to 3-Release, physically releasing the band? It also states that the spring, aided by accumulator pressure, should cause the dis-engagement of the band. Could my problem be related to, say, a weak spring or a lower-pressure accumulator?

Any ideas on the bubbles? Why the hell are there bubbles all over the dipstick from the trans fluid? Is it possible the cretins at Pennzoil Quick Change topped off the trans fluid with differential GL-5? Hmmmmm....

[Legacy777]

Change the fluid....it doesn't sound good.

I don't know about the "flush" method you've described

A better way....and possibly messier way would be to take the trans lines off the radiator. Put adapters in them to extend them outside the engine bay. have the line coming from the tranny go to an empty 5 gallon bucket of some sort, and have the line going back to the tranny sitting in a bucket of fresh fluid. Run it for a while until fluid color looks good that is coming out of the cooler lines.

Connect the cooler lines back up.....check the level.....adjust, drain/add the level so it's at the proper level. That would be the poor man's flush


The band issue is a thing of timing. It's probably disengaging too late, or staying engaged too long, which is most likely caused by wear. You can adjust the band either by tightening it or loosening it slightly to help compensate

[frood]

Alrighty. I changed the fluid. It didn't help. I could really only do a 'partial' flush. This was achieved low-tech style, remove trans drain plug. drain out about 5 quarts of fluid, then replace with 5 quarts of fresh. That should be more than half od vital capacity (8.4 QTS or so).

I read that there was a possibility that 'foamy' trans fluid could be caused by water getting into the trans cooler lines due to a bad radiator. Now, mu oild hadn't been foamy, but it was bubbly. So, how do I test for the presence of coolant in the ATF ?