Drivetrain slipping...

[Legacy 97]

Drivetrain slipping.


I have a 97 Legacy AWD 5 speed with about 180000km. The problem I have is when I’m driving at constant speed (above 30km/h) if I step on the gas pedal I can hear the engine revving up but I don’t get the acceleration to go with the engine. Now if I accelerate slowly everything works as advertised. This occurs in every gears but the first, in 1st all is OK. The car will also stall quickly if I release the clutch in first gear. Every time I voluntarily induce the slipping I never get the clutch smell. Tranny oil level is good. Could this be the viscous cupping and/or clutch problem? Or maybe something else?

Please someone HELP.

[legacy92ej22t]

Sounds like a bad clutch to me. You have a higher load in the higher gears so that's why it slips more in higher gears.

[Legacy 97]

Thanks.

I'm then wandering if getting this fixed is worthy. Not knowing the cost of replacement?

[vrg3]

I second the bad clutch guess.

You can get a replacement clutch pretty cheap on eBay, and the swap is pretty straightforward. A single weekend job, probably... I haven't done it myself but that's what others have said.

Have you searched through the drivetrain forum here yet?

[BAC5.2]

Most likely a bad clutch.

Replacement should be easy, I will be doing my clutch when it needs to be done.

I paid $600 in parts and like 400 in labor for the install. But I also got more clutch than you would likely need.

[Legacy 97]

Even though I bought this car used 4 years ago @ 70000km, this is the first time I ever go through a clutch. Wouldn’t this be somewhat premature for the clutch to fail? Are these type of car known to be hard on a clutch. My previous Subaru was a 92 Loyal 4WD I got rid of it at over 280000km with the original clutch.

[BAC5.2]

100,000 miles should be considered a good lifespan of the clutch, IMO.

[tris91ricer]

It's not the cars that are hard on clutches, its the driver. So after ~70k of some spirited driving, you "getting used" to the new clutch, there's significantly more wear.
What type of clutch is it? Going on that it's a newer legacy(97), I would guess hydraulic, meaning the adjustment is also hydraulic, therefore, your clutch is just about gone, due to the fluids' adjustments while you drive. Get that? It just depends on how you drive --I had my OE clutch in my 91 until about last august, but there again, my neighbors who have a WRX, are swapping in a new clutch just about every other month. It's very dependant on the driver's ability and habits.
A new clutch should run you no more than $220, if you're out to get an OE replacement. Try AutoZone, or your local CSK, PartsAmerica, whatnot, and price quote until you get the lowest one. It's a very easy job, like they all said, so don't be daunted. Good luck, and feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

[fishbone79]

Autozone has a pretty decent clutch for ~150, I believe. You can do the job yourself in a solid saturday. Be sure to get your flywheel lightly resurfaced (some may say this is a bad idea because of pressure plate gaps and yadda yadda, but a beat up flywheel will just tear up a new clutch and chatter allot. A good machinist will take off minimal material, and it will be like brand new. Costs $15.)

Cheers!

Morgan

[tris91ricer]

I forgot that part! Good lookin' out, fishbone.
Yeah, it may add weight, but the $15 or so beats the what, anywhere from $400 to $700 for a new FW?
Good Call.

[Legacy 97]

Well for everyone’s here is a bit of trivial information. I just made my first call to see what kind of damage I’m looking at; I was a bit shocked. This is a ball park figure for the repair up here in Mtl Canada. New clutch, pressure plate, bearings, FW refacing and labor (not including the infamous “MIGHT AS WELL DO THIS SINCE WE ARE IN HERE”) 1000.00CDN$. Thanks everyone for the advices at least it saved me from the cost of diagnostics.

Up coming repairs: Rear wheel bearings, exhaust, timing belt, rear brakes. I think she will be a goner.

[legacy92ej22t]

Yep, if you pay someone else to do it you'll get spanked.

Personally, I only like to get spanked at fetish clubs, with tassle whips, while completely naked except for my leather chaps.

[tris91ricer]

hell motherf*ckin no!:evil:
Do your own work, its not hard, and there's bound to be someone you know that could help and/or supervise. for 1G, even CDN dollars, you could buy 5 new OE clutches. Go to autozone. call autozone, anywhere.. any auto shop you like. ..and you shouldn't be paying for diagnostics, estimates are always free, and I'm pretty sure that's not just an american thing.
Wheel bearings, sure, --throw it in the shop for that, those suck to do.
timing belt can be done if you're patient, and the brakes can be done in your driveway.. you probably just need new pads --not hard, man, and definitly not expensive.
Keep asking us questions, and for the love of Subaru, don't send that thing to a shop, the majority of your work is simple.
Check out Josh's website: www.surrealmirage.com/subaru
find the notes on the EJ engine, which is your engine, and read the SAE docs on it; this engine was designed from the block to be easy to work on and meet maintenance and serviceability standards --even by the home mechanic.
If you're here, you're headed in the right direction. Don't give up!
..or if you do, put the car in the Parts Shed section with a nice(see: CHEAP) price on it, and someone here could buy it and fix it. Your choice.

[tris91ricer]

Matt, you so dutty!

Me too!

[fishbone79]

A goner!? Are you kidding me?! That car is a virgin. Wheel bearings are easy.... take you 3 hours, look it up. You got it right, 91 legacy sleeper (whats yer name, anyway?), brakes, exaust, all simple. Timing belt is a little involved, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination. If your gonna get rid of it, send it my way; my backyard is apparently where subarus go for their afterlife (and often rebirth!).... that car has got tons of life left in her man.

Cheers,

Morgan

[tris91ricer]

you got it right, Fishbone. (btw, I'm Tristan, nice to meet you.)
He wants to give up on it probably due to the maintenance cost. I hope he comes back, or at least lets us know what's up
Legacy 97: Hey man, we're not dogging you in any way. We're really glad you're here. Where else can you get literally FREE, exact help on how to fix your own car? We'll help you every step of the way, and in fact, if you let us know where you're from, I'll bet there's a member near you who'd love to help out if you're squeamish. (sp?) We post on these boards all day long because its something we love; we're not mechanics by trade, (well, some of us are, but..) and we have nothing to gain by you being here, except kicks that we helped you out. So please, please, please come back.. let us know what's up, we always like to help out our new members.

[fishbone79]

Righton, Tristan. I too hope he comes back. Did I come off as kind of an ass? I hope not, that was not my intention at all; I wanted him to know how easy it was. He could have his car wrapped up and as good as new in a solid friday-sunday night. I chime in when I think I can help only because that is what I think people are here for: answers.

Cheers

Morgan

[tris91ricer]

no, I'm the asshole, always. it never fails..
i think it was the evil devil smiley. oops, i did it again!

[Legacy 97]

Hey guys not to worry. As far as being able to do the work myself is pretty well not an issue. I spent 15 years working on commercial large aircraft transport with a specialty in propulsion systems and aircraft mechanical systems before getting a desk job. The problem is time and space. Regardless I did decide to get the car fixed. It will still be cheaper than to go buy one. So I will be driving it by tonight. And not to worry about the light abuse some of you dished out that was nothing it never offends me. It’s all in good faith. I will be back.

[tris91ricer]

Hey! Thanks. We're glad you did come back.
We tend to get a little too enthused when it comes to things Subaru, and its rarely curbed around here. Nevertheless, hopefully the bill on that fixing might motivate you to learn a bit more from us, so that in the future, you can do some mods, or at the very least, preventative maintenance. We'd love to help.
Really? Propulsion systems? Big airplanes? Tyte, Yo. I hear you on the time and space, as well.. I still live at home,(read: with mom) so space is always an issue, and my social life, as well as three jobs takes a nice chunk of my time. We're all pretty bound by the time factor, and there are so many things that most of us would like to have done to our cars, but since they're our daily drivers, most of our work on them needs to fit somewhere in between a few hours, or at the least, a weekend.
Good Luck,

[Legacy 97]

And the verdict is 1317 $ ((CDN) Clutch, both front C.V.s) Oh well beats the hell out having monthly payments on a new car just before winter. I’ll be happy to get a year or more out of it if I don’t have to inject to much into it. Then I will most likely trade her in, get the hand my down car from my wife (2000 Legacy Outback) and then get her whatever she want.

[tris91ricer]

wow... okay. sounds like a plan, then. why trade it, though? why not keep it as a street machine? I would bet that you're from an older generation, but.. you still can't resist severe speed, can you? that car has TONS of potential.. look into it before you decide to get rid of it.

[Legacy 97]

I guess you would be right about me being from an older generation (even though I hate to admit it). My next job on this would be to change the timing belt. Any special consideration when under taking this type of work. Beside the obvious like removing the D.R.U. (Driveway Replaceable Units Alternator…) once you gain access to the belt cover any thing to do

- to align the 3 pulleys with the belt
- should the belt tensioner be replaced
- do you need to replace the water pump or remove it for access
- Any special tools required (pullers…)

[tris91ricer]

Sorry, didn't mean to call you "OLD", its just that since the majority of us are in the 17-24 range, other than Josh, I don't think any of us work in any type of real engineering, let alone aerospace. I could be wrong though, I don't know what alot of people do around here..

Is your setup DOHC? I doubt it is, but since you're in CA, thought I'd ask. If that's the case, please be careful.. there can be damage done if things aren't just right.

I know that while you're in there, doing the water pump wouldn't be a bad idea; mostly cause if/when it fails, you're going to have to get all back up in there again, so spending the $60 or so now seems logical.
I have heard that in order to get the crank pulley off, people have used a wrench to lock the bolt, and then turned the engine a few times.. this trick seems to work.
Being still slightly new, I don't know much about T-belt jobs, but if you do a search, (or, if I have time, I'll do one for you, cause I'm nice like that.) You can read about other's experiences on this, as well.
Do you have a manual of some kind? If you're really crafty, and can find one, a Factory Service Manual is pretty useful, or barring that, go grab a Haynes manual. Yes, they're crap, but its better than nothing, and it'll at least give pictures of the process, as well as semi-detailed instructions.
Have you used our search function yet? If not, I don't know if I wanna deprive you of the fun...
Good Luck,

[Legacy 97]

Hey at 43 it has become only a job and a title, it pay the bills and keeps the old bag of my back.