A New Audio Project

[Nomake Wan]

Well, the holidays were very helpful to me in terms of money... so I decided to upgrade the sound system in my '90 Legacy. My dad and I went to Best Buy to check it all out, lookin' for 6-1/2 speakers that would be cool. We also looked at new head units... but I knew exactly what I wanted, and refused to spend so much money on stuff I wouldn't use.

It was while telling my dad what I wanted that an idea struck me. All I want is an Aux port for my iPod with an Amp. So it hit me; why not trash the head unit and simply get new speakers and an Amp? I told that to my dad, we talked it over, and I've got a system ready on paper.

First off, the Subaru head unit is gonna be gone. In fact, the entire front-center console's gonna be empty except for the climate controls. No ashtray, no storage compartment, no head unit. Just a big open space. In that open space will be another cigarette lighter and a mini jack connection. Where the head unit used to be will be a neat little stereo box that my dad had from a while back that turns high-level stereo input into high-level surround output, with adjustable settings. It was intended for early home theater systems, but it'll work just great for my application.

And since this device does the surround conversion, all we need is a two-way amp, and it doesn't even need to be all that powerful. Cost-effective and useful. Along with this is a set of 4 new speakers, maybe the Sony Xplods. The big difference is that just for fun, we're mounting a small speaker in the center of the dash to take advantage of our surround converter's center channel.

Once we get the car into the garage and start looking around, we'll finish some wiring diagrams. If we can, we'll be mounting the amp under one of the front seats. If not, it'll be small enough that we can mount it between the two rear speakers. Again, we don't need a big 4-way amp.

What I really like about the setup is that it's completely removable. I take the iPod out and there's nothing except the three knobs for the surround converter (and the power switch for the Amp, if we end up having to install one).

See, I have no need for FM, AM, Tape, CD... I've got an iPod. And if anyone wants to listen to their own stuff, they can just as easily put their portable CD player into the link unit, or even a portable radio.

So yeah! That's the gist of our idea. Thoughts, suggestions?

It's only in the planning stages at the moment, so any feedback you've got is more than welcome!

Oh yeah, and we won't be adding a subwoofer... having my brother hit the back seat to the beat is subwoofer enough. XD Seriously, the trunk is really acoustic like that.

[Brat4by4]

Sounds cool. Don't know if I understand the need for only a 2 channel, sounds like you need at least 3. But anyways, I would stick to buying Infinity or some other well known brand for quality. You can pick up brand new warrantied Infinity units on e-bay for about half of retail, you can even get them from Harmon Kardon (aka Infinity, JBL) itself!

Buying brand new speakers from Best Buy is a serious cash waster in my humble opinion. That's a great idea if it works for you. Maybe you'd want to convert the rears to 6x9 while you do it since you don't want a sub.

[professor]

sounds fine to use the iPod, but ditch the idea with the surround converter. You will end up with cheap, synthesized 5.1 surround-sound, and you don't even have a front center speaker location. That means all of your middle frequencies (voice) will be weak and partially lost.

I don't like anything that tries to electronically compensate for a signal that wasn't there in the first place. I assume your iPod recornings will be mostly stereo and not 5.1 surround. You will end up with a distortion generator. And isn't that device 120v powered ?

It would make perfect sense to scrap the head unit, and mount a plug-in to pipe the input directly to a 4-channel amp mounted under the seat or elsewhere.

btw I think Sony speakers are overpriced for what you get, silly bling looks that do nothing, Kenwood or Polk or similar more serious goods will give you a better performance for the price.

[Nomake Wan]

Well, the thing with the synthesis is, I've heard it myself. Yeah, it creates channels that weren't there. However, it's doing the same as those high-end home theater amps do when in Dolby Pro Logic mode. That is, it's identifying the parts of the signal that sound like they belong in other channels and puts them there. It can also take straight stereo and multiply it, which is nice. The point is, it creates the illusion of spaciousness. And that's good.

I haven't made any final decisions on speakers, so I'm still taking suggestions. I simply named one I saw off of the top of my head. I'll consider the 6x9 upgraded rears, too.

As for Best Buy, see, the thing is, I have a crapload of money on a Best Buy card. That's why I'm dealing with them. If there was a way to convert that to cash, I would. But I can't.

2-channel amp sends left and right signals to surround converter, which converts it to five channels. No subwoofer.

And as for not having a center speaker location, that's true. But I also said in my explaination that I would be mounting a small speaker in the center of the dash. Yeah, it's silly. Yeah, I don't care.

Anyway, thanks for the comments, keep 'em coming!

[evolutionmovement]

Could you mount the amp under the rear shelf between the speakers? My ex had that set up with two 6x9s in her Monte SS and it sounded pretty good and there was still plenty of room for a couple bodies in the trunk.

Steve

[scottzg]

Ya know that home entertainment stuff is 8ohm and car stuff is 4ohm, right? You run the risk of cooking your speakers. Older blaupunkt stuff is 8 ohm.

Kenwood and pioneer are almost the same speakers (same range, and i can't tell a difference audibly) and both are considered excellent for the price point. A comparable xplode sounds tinny next to them.

I don't like the 5.1 idea much either. I would opt for a head unit with an accessory jack.

[Nomake Wan]

EDIT: Here's a layout of the system. It was made in Windows Paint and got screwed up when I converted to grayscale, but oh well. http://img152.exs.cx/img152/9870/soundsystem0kn.jpg

Steve: We'll be mounting the Amp there if and only if we can't mount it under one of the seats. If it goes under a seat, it saves us a lot of hassle in the wiring department.

Scott: Actually, the surround unit is unpowered. That's why it'll work in the first place. So it doesn't matter at all... it takes the high-level in from the Amp and splits it to 5.0 (I don't have a subwoofer, guys, so it's not 5.1) then sends that high-level signal to all of the speakers. By the way, the unit we're using is a Dynaco QD-1 Series II L Surround Sound Processor.

My dad agrees that Pioneer or Kenwood is the way to go speaker-wise, so that's probably what we'll be investing in. I can get four of those for about $100, so cool.

Also, I just remembered; the point here is also to be sleeper. Just as it looks like there's no stereo system, we won't be changing the back speakers from their standard 6-1/2 size to 6x9s. Basically, we're keeping the stock look and all. If you think that's a mistake, give us a couple of reasons why it's a mistake. Change our minds, I guess.

A head unit with an Aux jack had stuff I didn't want and especially didn't want to pay for. With this, I can get great sound from the iPod for less money than if I bought a head unit and an amp. This skips the head unit altogether (since it contains nothing that I want but the Aux jack), allowing me to focus on the amp and speakers.

Keep the comments coming!

[Brat4by4]

How are you going to control volume?

[Nomake Wan]

There's a gain control on the surround unit, and the iPod itself has a volume control as well.

[Nomake Wan]

Meh. This project's goal has kinda been scrapped... not because it won't work, because it most certainly would... but because it isn't really the way it was intended to be. The surround unit is just slightly too large for the center console, and though I suggested mounting it in the trunk with the amp (seeing as I'd never have to mess with its settings except once), it seems that the idea is no longer efficient. Ah well.

So, the new setup for my car is this: 4 new Kenwood 2-way speakers, and a damaged head unit that came from my mom's van. The backlight is broken. But seeing as I've said time and time again that all I want or need is an Aux port, my dad said he'd just build one into it. This way, it's free and sure to mount properly.

Bah. I really wanted to do it my way, the original way. But I can't exactly do it alone, so damn. Guess I'ma have to go with the flow and do it like everyone else. >.>

On the flipside, this means I have lots of money left... I smell new parts in the mail, that I do...

[Nomake Wan]

Wow, I really hate to triple-post, but there's a serious update.

My dad got over whatever he was on when he decided not to do my project and I bought up the last necessary parts. In my family room I set up my power converter, the amp, my four new Kenwood speakers, and the QD-1 surround converter.

At first activation, nothing happened. The power light on the amp didn't go on at all. So I re-made the power wires and re-wired it, then flipped the switch.

Thrum. Power light was bright green, and the speakers were active. I plugged the iPod into a Y-adapter that was plugged into the 2-channel amp and hit "Play." That was loud! The volume on the iPod was pretty high, so the resulting sound was equally loud. I fiddled with the settings on the surround unit and finally got it to put out the same amount of power to all four of my new speakers, having the center channel turned off and disconnected. Even in a huge space like my family room, I could feel the bass and could hear the rest just fine.

So the setup works great! A 2-channel amp running into a Dynaco QD-1 surround converter putting out 4.0 channels. I'll edit this post with some pictures as soon as I take them.

Heh, the guys at Best Buy tried over and over again to tell me that I needed a 4-channel amp, and that I might damage my iPod by putting it into an amp directly. Apparently they've never heard of a Y-adapter or the Dynaco QD-1.

So I'm really happy! Next step is the ordering of required mounting parts and fabrication of the rest.

EDIT: Here are images of the testing setup!
Whole System
Dynaco QD-1
Amp, QD-1, iPod

[isotopeman]

I'd "gotten by" just fine since highschool (91) with a similar setup - minus the surround processor. The full range sound quality of a quality portable music player fed directly into a simple amplifier was unparalleled by what any of my friends had.
Grounding was something I hadn't realized at first though. I had to ground the output of the CD player/Walkman with the car chassis. That may have been specific to the amplifier I was using though.
On speakers, don't let those guys at Best Buy tell you things like "sensitivity doesn't matter; just get a bigger amp."
Enjoy.

[Nomake Wan]

Heh, yeah. I don't know about grounding the player; I didn't ground it or anything in the test setup, so I doubt that I'd have to when it's in the car. In the car, power's supplied by a standard automotive power outlet (cigarette lighter for all of us who still call it that).

This weekend I'm going to try putting the amp in the emergency kit box space. I had the amp on for quite a while during testing, and it barely heated up. I'm going to do another temporary setup and run it for a while in that under-trunk space to see if I get similar results. If it doesn't overheat, I'm mounting it there. If it does, I'll go for the back seat crossmember.

I'm still waiting on the mounting parts for the door speakers and the wiring harnesses to come in the mail. Bah.

So, until next update. Later!

[Nomake Wan]

Okay, time for an update on my progress.

I tried putting the Amp into the Multibox space. It wouldn't fit. Essentially, I'd have to make a whole new multibox to fit it, which is a bit more fabrication than I'd like to do. We'll just go with a dual-bar rear seat mount like Josh did.

I'm thinking of getting a new Amp. It's really too bad that the one on sale was gone when I did go to buy it... it was twice the power, had much less distortion, and was hardly more expensive than the one I have now. I'm gonna go look at some more 2-way amps to see if there's a better one around the same price as the one I have now... my dad has no faith in my current unit.

I ordered a bunch of parts from Crutchfield: 2 pairs of speaker wiring harnesses, one set of stereo wiring harnesses, one pair of front speaker mounting adapters, and an Amplifier install kit. Funny thing is, the amp install kit from Crutchfield cost $20, when a similar kit from Best Buy cost around $85. I would think it'd be the other way around, but hey.

The new Kenwood speakers are all in, through a lot of trials. The rear ones didn't just drop in since there are little tabs on the sides. I used a pair of pliers to yank them up, then the speakers went in fine. As for the fronts, those had issues too. The tabs were annoying again, and figuring out how to get the speakers onto the adapters was trial-and-error too. That's what I get for not reading directions (I didn't put the metal tabs that came with the speakers onto the adapters)! With a little more finessing the fronts went in, though I'm a little worried about how structurally sound the metal connector tabs are on the speakers, since I had to bend them a bit to fit. The door panels are all back on as well, so the only things left empty are the back seat/shelf and the space where the stereo used to be.

Once I get the amp situation taken care of, it's final wiring time. Then I'll finally have an entertainment system back in my Legacy! I tell ya, it's getting annoying looking down for the time and seeing a hole in the console.

One thing, though; while looking through the space where the stereo was, I noticed that there are not two, but three wiring harnesses. Two go to the stereo... but one looks suspisciously like a speaker wiring harness. What the heck? A speaker harness behind the stereo?

I can only guess what this is for. It'd be nice if I could wire a center speaker in through it, but tough luck, I bet. Could somebody tell me what the heck it is?

Later, all!

EDIT: Alright, I saw an ad in the paper for the Amp I was originally gonna buy. Clearance deal. So I took back the Dual Amp and got a 760W Pioneer 2-Channel Amplifier for $160. Twice the cost, more than double the output, and much less distortion. I love it. My dad and I are going to figure out the things we need to fabricate and replace today, and hopefully tomorrow and Monday'll be the last days of my car being ICE-less.

[nzKAOSnz]

Hmmmm. I personally would have thought that it would have been better to run IPod>QD1>4chnl Amp>Speakers.
Have a nosy at http://www.mp3car.com for people basicly doing this but with computers instead of IPods.

[Nomake Wan]

Well, the QD1 only accepts high-level input. That and a powerful 2-channel amp is cheaper than an equally powerful 4-channel amp. Believe me, I wouldn't need the QD1 if I had a 4-channel amplifier. Think about it; I'd be putting in the iPod straight to the 4-channel, which would split it into the four speaker signals on its own, thereby removing the need for the QD1.

The goal here is good sound from an iPod at a low price. People who want AM/FM/CD/MP3/etc probably won't like/use my idea. But for those people who just want their music brought along, it's perfect. Besides, the way it's designed, you don't have to use an iPod. You can just as easily plug in a CD Player, Portable Radio, PS2... anything, really.

And does anybody know what the heck the speaker harness that's with the two headunit harnesses in the center console is for?

[vrg3]

I think it might be a lighting harness for the optional CD player.

[Bheinen74]

I was planning something similar and just come across this posting. Most amps I know of require a "remote on" wire to turn the thing on and off. How do you wire a heaphone to rca converter and still have the amp come on without a remote on connect? I am curious. Can i just hook any radio/cd device with a headphone output to a RCA converter directly to an amp? The radio device had a volume control, and the amp has gain control, so it should all work if i come up with an alternative to the remote on.

suggestions please.

[vrg3]

You'd use a switch to control the amplifier, or just wire it to come on with all the other accessories if that's workable.

You should check the specs of your particular amp, but in general you can indeed just connect the output of the line level converter directly to the amp's inputs.

[Bheinen74]

Okay, I decided for now to use my factory stereo, CD/cass on my 94 legacy. Hooked up my amp using the speaker level inputs, off the factory stereo. I used the power antenna lead at the antenna for my remote-on for the amp. If you take the 3 screws out of the storage area inside the hatch area near the power antenna, pull out the storage tray, you will see the plug tucked away behind some electircal tape. I unplugged the connector, and spliced into the BLUE wire first to try it out. There are three wires, blue, black and red. Well, I assumed that the black was ground, and that the other two were for the UP and DOWN for the power antenna. I tried the blue first, and that one works for the amp remote on.

When I tried it out, it worked. then I tried out a CD, and my amp turned off at first. Guess the power antenna turns off when go to just CD, but when i switched back to radio, and then back again to CD, the antenna stayed up, and it worked.. kinda wierd, but will have to do some more experirmenting with it to tell what that might be. maybe just something freakish....

If I ever get around, i will pre-wire a RCA setup that I can swap over for my MP3 setup. But for now, using the stock head unit. sounds okay. My amp says to use one input connect at a time, so if I run the RCA cables from up front, I am not hooking them into the amp. The swap would be a pain though, cause it would require to unhook the speaker level inputs at the amp and then switch over to the RCA's...darn, that sucks.

Oh yeah, still running my front door speakers (blown) off the factory radio, just the back speakers off the amp. Those rear speakers sounded like crap before this whole setup.

[Nomake Wan]

Whoa, weird seeing this come back up.

Not a bad idea... too bad I don't have a power antenna. ^-^;

This project's been... scrapped. I mean, it's still cool and I still have all the parts I would need to do it, but I'm not going to.

Why?

Because I got something better.

I'ma write a review for my current setup as soon as I get some pictures of it, which'll be once I get my new back panel and rear seat in place. It's a new Alpine head unit and iPod interface. Snazzy, compact, light, stealth, and sounds great.