No start condition

[Legacy777]

Car really pissed me off today....I posted something about this before, and it didn't do it for a long time, so I left it alone.

I had a doctor apt. today and go out to start the car, nothing. I yank around under the dash, bang on the steering column, no go.

No clicking either.

Had to borrow a co-worker's car to get to the doctor's, and sat for a good hour.

There are three things I think it could be.

Ignition switch
shift lock solenoid
alarm wiring/alarm.

The alarm is supposed to not be wired to the ignition, and is only supposed to be wired to the starter circuit. I mention the alarm because I've been getting the LED to blink after I disarm the alarm. It's very strange. I don't know if it's trying to say something is messed up, or what. Again, it is sporadic at best.....

If I have to rewire the whole alarm, so be it. But I want to rule out the other things too.

BTW, I got back from doctor, tried starting the car, she started right up. So I really don't know what the hell is going on.

[vrg3]

You've already overhauled your starter and solenoid, right? I have fuzzy recollections of that...

If not, that's probably the problem. When starter solenoids start to go (heat kills them eventually), they just occasionally don't work, just like that. It starts happening more and more often until the solenoid just quits.

You ought to keep a test light handy, and the next time the car refuses to start, hook it to the small wire of the solenoid to see if it's getting power when you try to crank. If it is, your problem is either the solenoid or starter, and you may as well replace the whole assembly.

You can check the ignition switch easily enough with the same test light...

I don't know much about alarms in general, and about your alarm in particular, so I don't know how to help there.

What sucks is that it's intermittent, so you're going to have to just keep that test light with you in the car until it happens again.

[Legacy777]

it's not starter solenoid contacts. I replaced them last feb or something like that.

There is no clicking either. I need to find out where the shift interlock mechanism is too and test that.

I've got a diagram for the alarm circuit too. Yeah the intermittant thing is definitely a problem.

[vrg3]

You replaced just the contacts? Not the coil itself?

It's usually the coil that dies. Heat cycling eventually causes a tiny crack somewhere in the coil, and that eventually results in an open circuit.

Normally, the coil energizes and pulls the plunger. The plunger pushes the pinion gear into the flywheel teeth and at the same time closes the motor circuit. The plunger moving is the click you hear when the solenoid is working.

[Legacy777]

I've never heard that......I've always heard it's just the contacts, and from taking them out, I see that they were definitely the problem.

Yeah I replaced just contacts.

[vrg3]

What I wrote above is from general experience with cars, not just Subarus. I just replaced the starter on my girlfriend's 626 because the solenoid coil had died that way, and a lot of other people on the 626 forums said they had to do the same after 100 or 200 thousand miles. I asked other people who knew about cars and they all told me the same thing.

If you don't hear a click, and there's at least 8 or 9 volts at the solenoid's low-current wire, then the coil's not doing its job. I don't know if it's a replaceable part, but I'd suspect not. It sucks that you just put brand new contacts in.

[Legacy777]

yeah......gotta see what I can find out.

[vrg3]

Too bad you don't have a standard... When the 626's solenoid died I got really good at starting the engine by pushing the car, hopping in, putting it gear, and popping the clutch.

[scottzg]

Not to get on your case about your wiring too much, but I have seen this time and time again with friends wiring up their stereo [or alarm] improperly and half assly.

It will "work" for the time being, but later down the line something ends up getting fried or screwed up because the wiring is not done right.

If you do it right, it will work right, and work that way for a long time.

Since it's intermittent, could you just have a hardwired battery-fuse-starter-ground circuit rigged up "just in case?"

Once you start talking about resistors, relays, etc, i can't design it, but i want this insurance. My recent experience makes me wary of getting stuck somewhere because of my now ambiguous wiring, and im sure you feel the same.

[Legacy777]

Yeah I could rig something like that up. I need to look at some info tonight and see if/where I can narrow things down.

BTW, I did not install the alarm, it was done at an "authorized clifford dealer" as that's the only way they'll honor their theft policy.

[Legacy777]

Well I had some time to do some troubleshooting tonight, and I found some very interesting things.

The first thing I found was the hood sensor was being cranky.....seemed to fix that though.

Second major thing was that I could start my car with the alarm enabled..... That's a big no-no.

The system is setup so that it defaults to a fail safe mode so you can start your car. The relay is not energizing to disable the power going to the coil. The wiring is correct, because if I pull the relay, I can't start the car. Like I said, I traced and tested all the wiring leading to the relay. It is correct, and has zero continunity from the connector that goes into the alarm to the relay. So I don't think it's a wiring issue.

When I arm the alarm I should get a 12v signal running through the one wire, which should energize the relay and disable the starter. There is some how a problem there.

I assume the 12v to energize the relay is coming from the alarm, but not sure exactly where that juice is coming from.....probably on the board some where. Other lead connected to the relay coil should just sink the current back into the board. But again....once it hits the board, I'm not exactly sure where it goes, but I do know I'm not getting 12v+ when I should be.

Unfortunately I don't think there is much more I can do, unless I take it to a clifford dealer to have the alarm brain tested. Clifford probably won't deal with me directly. I guess if I could follow the traces on the board, & knew enough about electronics I could try and test what circuit/device is bad.

Only thing I found suspicious was that there is a green/black wire that says it should be connected to 12v+ for future use.....it was never connected, and when I put 12v+ to it....it didn't help.

I am confident in my troubleshooting/diagnosis of the problem. So next time the car pulls a stunt like it did, I will pull the relay and if it clicks I know that it is definitely the alarm that is causing it not to start. Now I just need to have it do it again.....and once I confirm that.....then I can say with good confidence that the alarm brain is messed up.

vrg3, this is probably going to be up your alley. I'd greatly appreciate any info/feedback you can give.

I've scanned the wiring diagrams for the alarm. I'll pm you the addy's. I don't feel like giving out my alarm diagram to anyone on the net.....sorry.

[vrg3]

I PM'd you about the stuff.

Personally I don't think letting people see the wiring diagram is a big deal... Alarms aren't really a big deal to bypass if someone wants to anyway, but we can finish the discussion over PM/email, and if/when you find the solution maybe you can post it in the thread.

[Legacy777]

I guess I might not have been clear in my post. I'm having two separate issues. The car not starting, and the fact that the car should not start when the alarm is active.

Yes the default condition of the relay is to allow the car to start. Like you said, this is done by default in case there is a problem.

The relay itself is good, i swapped it with another one exactly the same from my stereo setup.

The issue with the 12v+ white/red wire is that it's switched. When the car is off, there's no juice going to it, so it must get the 12v+ from the other end of the white/red wire that goes to the alarm. That's the only place it can come from. I just don't know what actually get's switched "on" inside the alarm when it's armed, the 12v+ or the fact that the alarm can sink that 12v+

On the no-start issue......I remembered last night that I had yanked out my alarm when I was having the problem, and that didn't do anything, so the alarm is not the cause of the no start issue. Next time it does it, I'll need to probe that relay and see if I have juice coming from the ignition switch. I need to see if the shift lock inhibitor is wired before or after the ignition switch.


I pm'd you the same thing. I don't mind discussing this in public, I just don't prefer to post the diagrams......and yes alarms are not hard to bypass....even when mine is working.....

[vrg3]

I'm having two separate issues. The car not starting, and the fact that the car should not start when the alarm is active.

Ah, okay. So the starter solenoid might still be a problem.

The relay itself is good, i swapped it with another one exactly the same from my stereo setup.

And you're sure that relay was SPDT as well? (I think I wrote DPDT in my first reply to you; I was probably on crack.)

The issue with the 12v+ white/red wire is that it's switched. When the car is off, there's no juice going to it, so it must get the 12v+ from the other end of the white/red wire that goes to the alarm. That's the only place it can come from. I just don't know what actually get's switched "on" inside the alarm when it's armed, the 12v+ or the fact that the alarm can sink that 12v+

The white/red wire doesn't go to the alarm, though, at least according to the diagram. It goes from the ignition switch to the starter, through the normally closed contacts of the relay.

The starter inhibit relay activates when the alarm grounds the coil of the relay. Have you checked that? If the alarm's failing to ground the green wire for starter inhibit then we will have to start looking inside the alarm brain box.

Next time it does it, I'll need to probe that relay and see if I have juice coming from the ignition switch. I need to see if the shift lock inhibitor is wired before or after the ignition switch.

Yeah, you'll basically have to check every step of the circuit from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Since I suspect the solenoid I suggest starting from that end and moving back, but you can do it from either side.

I pm'd you the same thing. I don't mind discussing this in public, I just don't prefer to post the diagrams......and yes alarms are not hard to bypass....even when mine is working.....

Yeah, they're basically a small deterrent. Like most security devices, they work mostly by how they look.

[Legacy777]

Ah, okay. So the starter solenoid might still be a problem.

Possibly, but after having the starter off, and being in there to put the new contacts in, I don't think it's the problem, but will keep it in mind. Wouldn't the coil make some sort of noise, humming, or something, especially after repeated turning of the key? I hear absolutely nothing, no clicking, no humming, no nothing.

And you're sure that relay was SPDT as well? (I think I wrote DPDT in my first reply to you; I was probably on crack.)

I'm assuming by SPDT, you mean single pull double throw (if not....I like my definition though ) The relay was exactly the same, and used the alarm starter interupt relay in place of the stereo one, and everything worked fine. I have plugs on both relays so only one kind of relay (technically) should work.

The white/red wire doesn't go to the alarm, though, at least according to the diagram. It goes from the ignition switch to the starter, through the normally closed contacts of the relay.

The starter inhibit relay activates when the alarm grounds the coil of the relay. Have you checked that? If the alarm's failing to ground the green wire for starter inhibit then we will have to start looking inside the alarm brain box.

Sorry, meant to say white/brown wire. There is one portion of the white/brown wire that is 12v+ ignition, and there's another end that goes to pin 6 on the alarm connector. They are both tied into pin 85 on the relay. Pin 86, is tied to the green wire, and then pin 1 of the alarm connector.

The problem is that there is no +12v from the white/brown wire. There is +12v when the ignition is turned on, however when the ignition is off & alarm engaged, there is no +12v on the white/brown wire. So no I don't know if the green wire is sinking current properly. But I do know the white/brown wire is not supplying +12v.

The only problem here is I never really tried to start the car before with alarm engaged, so I don't know if the alarm ever worked. They say to hook the white/brown wire to (ignition +12v) Does the ignition normally get a 12v constant, or a 12v switched source?

Yeah, you'll basically have to check every step of the circuit from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Since I suspect the solenoid I suggest starting from that end and moving back, but you can do it from either side.

Why do you suspect the solenoid?

Thanks for help BTW. It's nice to bounce ideas off someone else to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[vrg3]

Wouldn't the coil make some sort of noise, humming, or something, especially after repeated turning of the key?

Well, if there's a break in the coil, then it's an open circuit so nothing would happen.

I suppose you could also check the solenoid's coil fairly easily with an ohmmeter. When you get the no-start condition you could check the resistance between the low-current wire and ground, and if it's infinity, that's a problem.

I'm assuming by SPDT, you mean single pull double throw (if not....I like my definition though )

Yeah, although I usually say single pole double throw.

The relay was exactly the same, and used the alarm starter interupt relay in place of the stereo one, and everything worked fine. I have plugs on both relays so only one kind of relay (technically) should work.

Well, there are also SPST relays out there with two 87 terminals that have the same terminal layout as the SPDT relays (the center terminal is a second 87 instead of an 87a), so I just wanted to be sure. If your stereo doesn't use the middle terminal then it wouldn't care which kind you put in, and if you put an SPST dual-87 relay in your alarm, it would just never inhibit the starter.

The problem is that there is no +12v from the white/brown wire. There is +12v when the ignition is turned on, however when the ignition is off & alarm engaged, there is no +12v on the white/brown wire. So no I don't know if the green wire is sinking current properly. But I do know the white/brown wire is not supplying +12v.

The only problem here is I never really tried to start the car before with alarm engaged, so I don't know if the alarm ever worked. They say to hook the white/brown wire to (ignition +12v) Does the ignition normally get a 12v constant, or a 12v switched source?

The wiring diagram is kind of unclear on where the white/brown wire is supposed to go.

Usually, the way I think of an ignition switch is this way:

It has 4 terminals: BAT, ACC, IGN, and ST. When the key is in "Accessory," BAT is connected to ACC. When it's in "On," BAT is connected to ACC and IGN. When it's in "Start," BAT is connected to IGN and ST.

But you can also think of the "Start" position as connecting BAT to IGN and IGN to ST. Functionally it's the same, but ...

The wiring diagram for your alarm says that in the stock configuration there's a wire going from "Ignition +12v" to the starter solenoid. It's unclear whether that's IGN or BAT (since BAT would be "+12v from the ignition switch). I would guess though that it means IGN, because the brain box gets +12v from the battery anyway. It probably uses the white/brown wire to determine whether the car is running or not.

With respect to the starter inhibit functionality it doesn't matter whether it's hooked to constant or ignition because the only time it matters is when cranking, and at that time either one will have +12v.

I think you should turn the alarm on, put a voltmeter on the green wire, and check if it goes to 0v when you crank the engine. If it doesn't, then it's not sinking the current properly, right?

Why do you suspect the solenoid?

Like I said, they fail a lot on other cars. Haven't heard too much about Subaru starter solenoids failing, but still... heat cycling can make coils of wire brittle and it only takes one hairline fracture to break the whole circuit.

Thanks for help BTW. It's nice to bounce ideas off someone else to make sure I'm not missing anything.

No problem. =)

[Legacy777]

Well, if there's a break in the coil, then it's an open circuit so nothing would happen.

I suppose you could also check the solenoid's coil fairly easily with an ohmmeter. When you get the no-start condition you could check the resistance between the low-current wire and ground, and if it's infinity, that's a problem.

Ok....that is an option, I don't really want to keep my good multi-meter in the car though....think I have a cheapo somewhere.

Yeah, although I usually say single pole double throw.

thought it was something like that

The wiring diagram is kind of unclear on where the white/brown wire is supposed to go.

Usually, the way I think of an ignition switch is this way:

It has 4 terminals: BAT, ACC, IGN, and ST. When the key is in "Accessory," BAT is connected to ACC. When it's in "On," BAT is connected to ACC and IGN. When it's in "Start," BAT is connected to IGN and ST.

But you can also think of the "Start" position as connecting BAT to IGN and IGN to ST. Functionally it's the same, but ...

The wiring diagram for your alarm says that in the stock configuration there's a wire going from "Ignition +12v" to the starter solenoid. It's unclear whether that's IGN or BAT (since BAT would be "+12v from the ignition switch). I would guess though that it means IGN, because the brain box gets +12v from the battery anyway. It probably uses the white/brown wire to determine whether the car is running or not.

With respect to the starter inhibit functionality it doesn't matter whether it's hooked to constant or ignition because the only time it matters is when cranking, and at that time either one will have +12v.

I think you should turn the alarm on, put a voltmeter on the green wire, and check if it goes to 0v when you crank the engine. If it doesn't, then it's not sinking the current properly, right?

I'm still digesting all of the above. I need to have everything in front of me to verify.

Also....i found that clifford has the wiring diagrams on their site. So at least you can read it better now.
http://www.clifford.com/guides/wiring/i ... wiring.pdf

Also, I found that on a newer model, they say this about hooking up immobilizing circuits

Starter and Ignition Immobilization Circuits
1. Locate the ignition switch wireloom under the dash and use a voltmeter to locate the one wire that carries +12V throughout BOTH the cranking AND engine running cycles, and 0 volts when the ignition is off.
2. Start the engine, then cut the ignition wire. The engine should stop running.
3. as shown on page 3, connect the WHITE/BROWN wire to the key side of the cut ignition line.
4. Connect the GREEN/BLUE wire to the engine side of the cut ignition line.
5. Use a voltmeter to locate the one wire that carries +12V during the cranking cycle ONLY. Cut this wire, then try to start the engine. It should not crank.
6. Connect the WHITE/GREEN wire to the key side of the cut starter line.
7. Connect the WHITE/BLUE wire to the engine side of the cut starter line.

NOTE: The starter circuit may carry a very high current. Be certain that the starter wire connections are solid.

You can see the whole thing here http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/modi ... nstall.pdf

I'm going to verify that they cut the correct wire for the starter.

The wire they tapped into for the white/brown wire is ACC, not IGN......



ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...

That's most likely the problem. They tied into an ACC lead which does not have power during cranking, therefore relay does not energize and keep car from starting. I would assume they would want that relay to be energized when alarm is activated, but apparently not....maybe they wouldn't get the longevity out of the relay. Here's what I'll try. I'll hook a test light up to +12v, then touch green wire. If it lights up while trying to start, then alarm is sinking properly.

I will also verify that the lead they tapped into does not have juice when cranking. If so, then i will just tap into a +12v battery or +12v ignition lead.

SWEET!! I think we got one issue licked!

Like I said, they fail a lot on other cars. Haven't heard too much about Subaru starter solenoids failing, but still... heat cycling can make coils of wire brittle and it only takes one hairline fracture to break the whole circuit.

I'll try and figure out where I need to probe/test, so that the next time it happens I can diagnose.

[vrg3]

Also....i found that clifford has the wiring diagrams on their site.

Ah, much easier to read!

Also, I found that on a newer model, they say this about hooking up immobilizing circuits

Looks very similar to your model except that they polarize the starter inhibitor with the white/green and white/blue wires whereas your setup just has two white/red wires.

I'm going to verify that they cut the correct wire for the starter.

Yeah, that'd be good to check

The wire they tapped into for the white/brown wire is ACC, not IGN......

:!: :!: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...ding...

!

Yes, that would prevent the relay from energizing!

That's most likely the problem. They tied into an ACC lead which does not have power during cranking, therefore relay does not energize and keep car from starting.

Sounds right. Silly "professionals."

I would assume they would want that relay to be energized when alarm is activated, but apparently not....maybe they wouldn't get the longevity out of the relay.

You can't have that relay energized continuously while the car is parked because it would mean too much parasitic load on the battery. It makes sense to only cut out the starter when there's a chance someone's going to try to crank the engine.

Here's what I'll try. I'll hook a test light up to +12v, then touch green wire. If it lights up while trying to start, then alarm is sinking properly.

Yes, that sounds like a reasonable way to test it.

I will also verify that the lead they tapped into does not have juice when cranking. If so, then i will just tap into a +12v battery or +12v ignition lead.

I think you should tap the IGN wire of the switch, not BAT. It's quite possible that the alarm grounds the green wire at all times when armed, which would drain your battery as described above if you used constant +12v on the other side of the coil.

SWEET!! I think we got one issue licked!

Sounds like it!

Now just figure out your starter stuff... Your problems do sound just like what that old 626 was going when its starter solenoid's coil was dying.

[Legacy777]

yes.....silly "profesionals" indeed. I wonder some times. Glad to know I've had all this "wonderful" protection with my alarm......it's basically a noise maker.....but hey....it was installed by a profesional.....

I'm not sure if I'll get to this tonight....need to go to the grocery store....so I may have to put it off till the weekend. I would like to figure out the stupid HVAC stuff as well.

I'll verify all those connections and hook the bitch up correctly

I wish the problem would occur more frequently. It'd give me the opportunity to try and figure out what it is.

With one test I can probably rule out the ignition, and possibly shift lock inhibitor.

Wonder if they sell just the coil....or if I'd have to buy a new starter. Anyone have a spair starter from an auto legacy sittin around?

[vrg3]

yes.....silly "profesionals" indeed. I wonder some times. Glad to know I've had all this "wonderful" protection with my alarm......it's basically a noise maker.....but hey....it was installed by a profesional.....

Yeah. A noisemaker is a good description, actually. But I wouldn't mind having such a system in my car just so that when I run into a campus building for a second I can feel okay leaving my windows down and sunroof open.

The funny thing is that, because all your ignition wires were tapped to go to the alarm harness, your car's actually easier to hotwire.

When I got my car one of the many previous owners had installed one of those "Electro-Lock" antitheft devices. Basically it has a little slot in the dash that you have to plug the correct "keycard" into, and without it you can't start the car. The keycard just has the right set of jumpers on it; that's it. Well, when I was ripping it all out, I noticed that what Electro-Lock actually did was bring all the important ignition wires out to the dash (in the keycard slot). As a test I pulled the slot out so I could see the wires behind, lay a screwdriver over them while pressing the clutch pedal, and started my car.

I'll verify all those connections and hook the bitch up correctly :twisted:

Don't void your warranty! ;)

I wish the problem would occur more frequently. It'd give me the opportunity to try and figure out what it is.

Well, if it does turn out to be the solenoid coil, it will start occuring more frequently.

With one test I can probably rule out the ignition, and possibly shift lock inhibitor.

Yeah, you should be able to figure out the exact source of the problem actually, since the starter circuit is fairly simple.

Wonder if they sell just the coil....or if I'd have to buy a new starter. Anyone have a spair starter from an auto legacy sittin around?

I think a starter rebuild kit might include the coil, or maybe you're supposed to just use the correct gauge magnet wire and wind it yourself... You're better off just getting a used starter for cheap.

I think I might have one -- at one point I was collecting powerful DC motors for a project and that included some car starter motors. Let me look for you.

[Legacy777]

Yeah. A noisemaker is a good description, actually. But I wouldn't mind having such a system in my car just so that when I run into a campus building for a second I can feel okay leaving my windows down and sunroof open.

The funny thing is that, because all your ignition wires were tapped to go to the alarm harness, your car's actually easier to hotwire.

ironic isn't it

Don't void your warranty!

what warranty Not sure how long the clifford guarantee lasts....but I'm sure I have very few if any componants that are still in warantee

Well, if it does turn out to be the solenoid coil, it will start occuring more frequently.

I think I first noticed it quite a bit of months ago.

Yeah, you should be able to figure out the exact source of the problem actually, since the starter circuit is fairly simple.

Where exactly do I need to connect to? and if I measure the resistance across the coil, if there's a problem, would the resistance value not be 0?

I think a starter rebuild kit might include the coil, or maybe you're supposed to just use the correct gauge magnet wire and wind it yourself... You're better off just getting a used starter for cheap.

I think I might have one -- at one point I was collecting powerful DC motors for a project and that included some car starter motors. Let me look for you.

I'd rather not replace the whole starter, especially since I just replaced the contacts.

[vrg3]

Where exactly do I need to connect to? and if I measure the resistance across the coil, if there's a problem, would the resistance value not be 0?

If you want to check the coil, use an ohmmeter. Measure the resistance between the low-current terminal and ground. I believe there's a red/yellow wire going to the low-current terminal from the inhibitor switch.

If you suspect something else along the path, use a test light and follow the path. Get someone to hold the key in the "Start" position and:

Check for +12v at the START wire off the ignition switch. I believe it's the blue/red wire.

Check for +12v coming out the starter inhibit relay in the alarm.

Check for +12v coming out of the transmission's inhibitor switch. I don't know so much about this little guy since I'm not that familar with automatics, but it's mounted on the transmission, right?

And finally check for +12v at the low-current wire on the starter.

Oh, and I thought of something else -- when my friend's Neon refused to start one day, I told him to put it in neutral instead of park and it started right up. So if you suspect your inhibitor switch you might be able to test it that way too.

[Legacy777]

Well it's done.....alarm works exactly like it's supposed to

The idiot definitely had the wiring hooked up to the ACC position, and it did go off at START. He did have the START white/red wire correct. The wiring was such a mickey f'n mouse job......I looks like he stripped the wrong one and had to reconnect it. He had the wire wrapped around the main ACC lead. When I tapped into the IGN lead I stripped shielding, put wire through middle, wrapped it around the main wire and soldered it, and then taped it up.

The green wire barely sinks when the car is completely off & when key is in the RUN position. I say barely sink because the light faintly lit up. That's probably not enough juice to be able to energize the relay coil. I forgot to run the test light on the green wire when the alarm was on, but when I held onto the relay, it clicked open when I moved the key to the ON position. So that green wire probably only fully sinks when the key is in the ON & START position. It may actually get its trigger from the white/brown wire that is hooked up to the IGN lead. If that's the case, before hand, the alarm wasn't getting the signal to sink, nor was there any power to source.


I did check and the shift lock inhibitor is definitely down stream of the ignition. So I can test the ignition pretty easily and rule it out. I need to find out where the inhibitor is actually located or where its connector is.

When I was having problems, I did move the lever around from P to N, and in other gears. It did however do it's clicking thing when I applied the brake with the ignition on. Not sure if that indicates it's good, or if there's a different one for the shift lock, as well as the P & N inhibitor. I'll look at my manuals and see.

Thanks for all the help.....we got one problem solved & fixed.....just need to get the other resolved.

[vrg3]

The idiot definitely had the wiring hooked up to the ACC position, and it did go off at START.

That's such a rookie mistake. A lot of beginners confuse IGN and ACC... My brother almost hooked his ECU's power to accessory instead of ignition. :)

The wiring was such a mickey f'n mouse job......

You shoulda seen the "Electro-Lock" install on my car. Scotch-Loks all over.

When I tapped into the IGN lead I stripped shielding, put wire through middle, wrapped it around the main wire and soldered it, and then taped it up.

Cool, that should be sturdy.

The green wire barely sinks when the car is completely off & when key is in the RUN position.

It's probably driven by solid state circuitry with a small amount of leakage current... No biggie, unless that leakage current is big enough to put a drain on your battery.

I did check and the shift lock inhibitor is definitely down stream of the ignition. So I can test the ignition pretty easily and rule it out.

Yeah, I figured, since the alarm is wired to your ignition switch wires.

I need to find out where the inhibitor is actually located or where its connector is.

One of your manuals ought to tell you. Then you can tell us. :)

When I was having problems, I did move the lever around from P to N, and in other gears.

Hmm, that makes it less likely to be the inhibitor switch...

It did however do it's clicking thing when I applied the brake with the ignition on. Not sure if that indicates it's good, or if there's a different one for the shift lock, as well as the P & N inhibitor.

Clicking thing? I don't think the inhibitor switch clicks. Are you thinking of the interlock solenoid?

Thanks for all the help.....we got one problem solved & fixed.....just need to get the other resolved.

No prob... It's cool we figured one of them out.

Oh, and if your other problem turns out to be the solenoid, I'm doing a victory jig.

Oh, and about the coil in the solenoid, the manuals make it look like the solenoid as a whole is not a serviceable part (the "magnetic switch" is one monolithic entity). But you did take it apart before to change the contacts... It may be easier for you to install new contacts in a replacement starter solenoid instead of transferring the coil into your current solenoid.

[Legacy777]

It's probably driven by solid state circuitry with a small amount of leakage current... No biggie, unless that leakage current is big enough to put a drain on your battery.

It shouldn' matter because there it's not getting +12v unless the ignition is on.

Clicking thing? I don't think the inhibitor switch clicks. Are you thinking of the interlock solenoid?

Yeah...the interlock solenoid....damn autos got too much crap wired into them

I'll keep ya posted on what I find out.