Idle

[FutureSTIer]

Hey, I hope this is the right forum and since you guys are EJ22 experts I figure I give it a shot.

I have a ej22t swap with RS SOHC heads, I'm running a Ludespeed Stage 1 Kit on the car for now with a J&S Safeguard.

My idle is strange and the CEL light is on. Granted I know I should pull it but I was wondering if there is anything somebody can come up with right off the top of their head.

The car starts fine, but once the car warms up the idle fletters not high, but in the low rpm range. I come to a stop and it seems like the car will almost stall, but it NEVER does for some reason. I am thinking that the car is running rich and it is flooding the engine, but if I was right I wouldn't be asking. Anybody at all can help with some things to look at. Thanks

[FutureSTIer]

A side note, I have been thinking of stripping the turbo off the car. Can this ej22t shortblock with SOHC heads setup run without a turbo or will I just have more problems? Thanks

[vrg3]

What engine management system are you using?

There's no reason an EJ22T block can't be run without boost. Depending on what your compression ratio is, it might be painfully weak, though.

[FutureSTIer]

that's the problem I'm running the stock RS ecu with a J&S Safeguard for timing. I know I should be running stand alone but I want to definately identify the problem before I do anything else to it. The compression is around 7:5:1, and yeah I understand it will be powerless but hey compromises I guess.

[vrg3]

Well, the problem might be with your engine management.

The stock RS ECU was designed for an engine with a compression ratio of around 10:1, right? Roughly 33% more compression than you've got. Maybe you need much more advanced ignition timing at idle.

If you're using the stock ECU with the stock MAF sensor and stock injectors, then your fuel mixture will probably be more or less correct unless for some reason the engine requires weird fuel mixtures now.

There's a good chance that when you pull the trouble codes you'll find that they're for misfires.

[FutureSTIer]

What doesn't make sense is I have a J&S Safeguard especially for knocking and timing. Maybe it's not doing it's job or I need to tune it better. Who knows.

Is it bad to drive the car with misfires? If so I need to stop driving my car period, I don't want to damage anything.

Thanks, any more input anybody

[vrg3]

This isn't an issue of the Safeguard not doing its job; its job is just to retard timing when it detects knock, right?

Well, if my guess above is correct, you need to advance timing under certain situations. With lower compression, the intake charge takes longer to burn, so you have to start the burn earlier. Your stock timing at idle might not be making enough power to maintain a proper idle.

I'm just guessing, though. This may not be at all correct.

Some small level of misfire is usually tolerable and won't hurt anything. You'll clog up your oxygen sensor and catalytic converters faster, but the engine should be able to handle it. Without knowing how much your engine is misfiring I can't say whether I'd drive it or not.

[FutureSTIer]

Thanks for that input, makes a lot of sense, well then I guess the J&S Safeguard isn't really doing anything because it doesn't have to retard anything because there is no knock. I pulled the three codes and this is what I got.

P0420
P0172
P0107


Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold

Fuel trim malfunction (A/F too rich)

Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Input

Please keep it coming. What can misfire lead to? I always thought that running rich is always better than running lean

[evolutionmovement]

Its better in that detonation isn't an issue, but the deposit build up will severely hurt performance as well as the emissions system. These deposits can eventually form a potential hot spot in the combustion chamber that could cause detonation if the car goes lean at some point later on.

Steve

[vrg3]

That's odd that you wouldn't get misfire codes since your engine does seem to be misfiring.

Realize that most of us on this board are out of our element when discussing OBD-II stuff.

You're not running the EJ22T injectors with the EJ25 ECU, are you?

Running rich isn't always better than running lean. Running a little rich is usually easier on the engine than running a little lean, but in all situations you need to have a fairly correct air/fuel ratio or else the mixture won't ignite: misfire.

Misfire can slowly lead to contamination of the oxygen sensor and overheating of the catalytic converter(s), as well as high EGTs in general. Misfire also causes hydrocarbon emissions to go through the roof and hurts fuel economy.

But, a little bit of misfire usually doesn't do any bad harm.

[FutureSTIer]

Yeah my gas mileage is absolutely horrible, all of the deposits so to speak can be cleaned out at some point without pulling the engine correct. I am talking about some method I heard of cleaning all of the carbon out of the engine, I forgot the product.

[evolutionmovement]

Sea Foam seems to work well, but I've never dissected an engine before and after treatment to tell how much it removed. I can tell you that carbon depostits can get pretty damn ornery - just had to scrape it out of my heads while using Sea Foam as a solvent. I assume Sea Foam works better when used in a hot engine as it didn't do much today. The damage to your emissions could be an expensive PITA after a while. It won't hurt you much in the short term, but you'll be getting prematurely fouled plugs and all kinds of stuff after a while.

There's also a total engine vac, but you'll have to do a search on that one.

Steve

[FutureSTIer]

Thanks, emissions, you mean basically the whole turbo setup as right now back to the exhaust including 02 sensors and junk? I plan on replacing those anyways, I am worried more about the engine than anythign but the more I read the more I realize I should be able to just take it real easy on the car, save up for stand alone and Sea Foam the engine like 20 times to make sure