Have we figured out the upgraded injector thing yet?

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:34 am

OK, as I read all the posts and items from Kelley, I have to wonder if someone has figured out what to use/make to make them higher flowing.

We can upgrade the IC, Exhaust, turbo, but no injectors yet. I know that may mean a new computer to utilize them, but hell, you do what you have to do.

I would like 225 at the wheels. Not a bad goal. I figure IC- 3' exhaust, turbo, fcd, and 13psi should be close.

But then after that.............hmmmm. power is good

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:43 am

As I understand it, 92-94 N/A Legacy fuel rails are the key - they can take high flow Nismo injectors.

Discussion is m'hea:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=15486

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:24 pm

The stock injectors are good to around 300 chp. 13 psi won't get you anywhere near 225 whp, it will give you a little over 225 chp though.

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:19 pm

I doubt that our stock injectors can do 300chp without whack AFRs and undesireable duty cycles.

MK

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:06 pm

Where'd that estimate come from...? 300chp with higher fuel pressures, larger capacity fuel pump, 100% duty cycles?

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 pm

on the WRX, the injectors rises up to 120% Duty cycle

you can buy a little socket adaptor that slip into the injector socket, and then uses the Blitz 850cc ..

or the nismo 550cc injectors found on SR20DET will "fit" (may need the socket)

Or you can do like i did, and make some adaptors, + custom Top-fed fuel rails and use some WRX top-fed injectors, or 550cc / 750cc top-fed injectors at low cost from atpturbo.com

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merch ... y_Code=FUL

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:14 pm

Wait... socket adapter for injectors on the stock rails? Wherefrom howmuch partnumber?

And if thats the case, are you telling us that custom fuel rails and the WRX injectors come out to be a cheaper solution? There's no inexpensive highflow injectors that will fit the socket adapters...?

I like where this is going

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:42 pm

legacy92ej22t wrote:The stock injectors are good to around 300 chp. 13 psi won't get you anywhere near 225 whp, it will give you a little over 225 chp though.

I hit 100% futy cylcle in at 10-11 psi in certain gears and 13-14 psi in most gears.

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:47 pm

I don't remember if the sockets were buyable or was custom made for side-fed Blitz injectors.. but eater case, it's a very simple item any machine-shop doing aluminium work can do

and .. as far as i know, and according to my researchs, Top-fed injectors are much cheaper than side-fed ones..

So, as for my setup, this is what i did (Still to be completed)

I'm not sure if i've posted it already..

The sockets one friend made at his work.. (i still have 1 set of 4 left..

) :

And the custom fuel-rails (parallel configuration.. ) built into 2 6"x 2" x 3/4" aluminium bars:

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:02 pm

I see... so the plan should be then to get top-feed injectors of my choice, then bring them with me to a machine shop with the car and have an aluminum fuel rail made for them?

Parallel meaning both sides of the engine get pressure from a Y or T instead of through the other side as is the current setup? Or parallel to each injector?

What did it cost to have the rail fabricated?

Even the top feed injectors are ridiculously expensive... $85 for EACH? Wow. Thems expensive solenoids

(BTW... no photos above)

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:07 pm

They are working.. now at least.

MK

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:32 pm

The rails are parallel to each other, with a T .. like you said, and like the setup Perrin sells (for +450$ USD)

I made the rails myself with a press drill.. the 2 aluminium bars cost me 5$ total, the brass fittings 10$, one drill bit, 7/16" dia : 12$, one Tap to make NPT 1/4" fillets, 12$ .. only one minor adjustement is needed.. for the diameter of the injectors. will not cost a lot.. and i also need to solder them. :\ so for a total ~100$ CAD ..

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:24 pm

Now that sounds reasonable. I like that a whole lot better than my previous plan.

One question though: What exactly are you referring to when you say "one minor adjustment is needed for the diameter of the injectors"? Different size drill bit? Hole punch? Grinding?

And this setup is using the machined adapter sockets for the injectors to seat properly in the manifold? Or did you find injectors that seat in the stock openings?

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:13 am

free5ty1e wrote:What exactly are you referring to when you say "one minor adjustment is needed for the diameter of the injectors"? Different size drill bit? Hole punch? Grinding?

Well, i'll take the rails to a machine shop to drill a hole the exact size of the injector top .. so they will fit perfectly

free5ty1e wrote: (1) And this setup is using the machined adapter sockets for the injectors to seat properly in the manifold? (2) Or did you find injectors that seat in the stock openings?

(1) is correct

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:30 am

Excellent. Thank you, I believe I have a new fuel upgrade plan forming now. I like the idea of the parallel setup, and I def. like the idea of the low-cost alternative.

I would imagine the best idea would be to have the rails all ready and fit to the injectors chosen, and then take it all to a machine shop in your car and let them make the intake manifold injector socket adapters? Maybe even install it there? I mean... you've got to let them look at the injector seats without injectors in them to make the adapters, right? Or do you already have some magic specs that I can bring with me and have everything made without having to disassemble my car at a machine shop...?

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:52 pm

well, it looks like top-fed injectors are all pretty much the same, so you could make the seats already, (i'll give you some numbers this evening), and also have the fuel-rails bored to the correct size with the injectors.

the injectors are 4.5" appart from each others, and the ID of the hole for the injector top is (still to be determined precisely) ~0.420". the Feed hole of the injector is 1/4".

i'll show a side-cut of the plans i made for the fuel rail and socket, with all the sizes on it so you'll understand easilly.. it's hard for me to explain all that in english

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:27 pm

Thanks Morgie thats gonna be some good info. I have plenty of time before I need to upgrade the fuel system so I will wait to use the information you come up with, which will help things immensely.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:54 pm

Ok, I'm not going to respond to everyone individually but I was talking to the turbo guy at a local dealership (in talking to him he really seemed knowledgeable and I've heard multiple WRX owners talk about how good he is) and he said the EJ22T's ignition and fuel delivery systems were good to about 300 chp. He said with the exception that at about 250 chp you would want to start thinking about a wahlbro 255 fuel pump.

Also, Boostjunkie was running up to 18-19 psi with his 16G on the stock injectors. He had said they were stressed at this point but it worked and he was full stioch at those boost levels too.

I may be wrong and I'll admit it if I am but people have done it and drove many miles that way so you tell me if it's possible or not.

kidatari · Post by **kidatari** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:06 am

Instead of a big chunk of aluminum as a fuel rail, why not use a purpouse-built aluminum extrusion?

http://www.rossmachineracing.com/extrusion.html

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:46 am

kidatari wrote:Instead of a big chunk of aluminum as a fuel rail, why not use a purpouse-built aluminum extrusion?

http://www.rossmachineracing.com/extrusion.html

Wow ! because i didnt' kew that existed till now ..

but i guess making a "parallel" setup with that will be harder .. :\

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:32 pm

im bumping this thread in hopes that morgie will see it and come back with the info on the injector adaptors to put top feeds in our manifolds.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:22 am

I actually saw an ad for the fuel rail extrusion like that in an Aussie car mag, and thought that was a pretty slick way to help us in our fueling needs,

If someone could come up with some dimensions for the necessary parts (rails & seat adapters), I would probably get some made up.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:11 am

But it seems so easy to just stick in the high rated Nismo injectors into the 92-94 NA rails.

Here are 550 cc injectors that "look" like they should fit
http://www.vincentfurniture.com/photos/ ... yellonismo

Then there are 850 injectors
http://www.vincentfurniture.com/photos/ ... s/850nismo

Not sure if they would fit though.

the 370 injetors are a direct fit though.

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/photos/ ... ctorsingle

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:55 am

Anyone know if any from this list will work? Seems like a decent price but haven't looked that much. Is lbs/hr in volume, as in fluig ounces, or weight? Damn English system.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:13 pm

Converting lbs/hr into cc/min can vary, mainly because you have to take into account the specific gravity of gasoline, which can vary.

The simple answer is to go from lbs/hr to cc/min, take lbs/hr * 10.5

Here's some links with more detail, other variations.

http://www.convert-me.com/en/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1444&
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/spo ... ech_2.html
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/math.html

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Have we figured out the upgraded injector thing yet?

Have we figured out the upgraded injector thing yet?