vrg3 - your SS clutch line

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:10 pm

Where did you get your SS clutch line. I see what you mean now. It's just a standard banjo fitting at both ends. So I should be able to find one for pretty cheap compared to an "sti" one or something.

screw that damper thing....why the hell is it even there....probably to make bleeding the system a pain.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:21 am

It actually doesn't make bleeding much harder, since it has its own bleeder valve. It's weird, though, that RHD BC/BFs don't have it.

Anyway... I got a 14" -3 AN brake hose from Earl's with one straight end and one 90-degree end. The Earl's part number is 63011714.

Then I got two 10mm banjo adapters with male -3 AN threads. Those were Earl's part number 997631. I think they might also be listed as 3/8" banjos...

The 90-degree end of the hose goes to the slave cylinder, and the straight end to the master cylinder. I did have to take a grinder to the slave cylinder, though; the Earl's banjo is a big larger than the stock Subaru banjo, so it didn't quite fit. It only took like 20 seconds to make it fit, though; you don't cut anything important.

The reason the 90-degree end is important is that otherwise the line gets dangerously close to the starter's power cable. Stainless steel braid is really good at cutting through stuff, so you obviously don't want that.

Total cost should be around $40... Baker Precision is probably the cheapest place to get the parts.

You could try to get a custom-made hose with banjos on both ends already (figuring out the appropriate bend for the slave cylinder end), but I really like how on my car now I can leave the banjos attached permanently and only ever disconnect the AN fittings. If you know about AN fittings you'll understand why that's so great -- they're really easy to tighten and loosen, they require no sealing gaskets or o-rings, and they're designed to be cycled many, many times. To me, this is an advantage over even an STi line.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:49 pm

I'm not too familar with earl's or the different fittings......so I'll have to do some homework and try to get a handle on things.

Thanks

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:16 pm

No prob.

Well, the only fittings you need to understand in this case are the banjo (which I gather you already have a good grasp on) and the AN.

AN fittings (also called JIC flares, 37-degree flares, or SAE J514 flares) are really cool because of the things I described above. If you look on a racecar all you'll see are AN fittings most of the time for this reason. Ditto with military vehicles, aircraft, and watercraft (AN stands for "army navy").

The "dash size" represents nominal internal pipe diameter in sixteenths of an inch, so a -3 fitting is meant to go with 3/16" ID pipe.

The AN flare seals metal-against-metal and there's something special about the 37-degree angle or something that means the metal elastically stretches rather than being squished or crushed. And, the sealing faces don't rotate against one another (there's a swivel thingie on the female side). All of that means that as long as you don't overtorque it you can connect/disconnect the fitting gazillions of times without its losing its ability to seal.

Here are the relevant pages at Baker Precision's web site; the little pictures should give you some idea of what you're doing:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/earls19.htm
http://www.bakerprecision.com/adapt9.htm

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:29 pm

picture is worth a thousand words

thanks!

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:32 pm

ordered

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:53 pm

vrg3,

Got another quick question. I ground away some of the metal on the slave cylinder to allow the fittings to fit.

The issue I have is with the length of the bolt. With washers on both sides and the new wider fitting, it doesn't leave too much threads on the bolt. Plus the outlet hole on the bolt is not centered up with the chamber on the fitting.

Did you get a new bolt? Hopefully I can find a replacement around here.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:22 pm

I do remember having some issue with bolt length... I had a few different banjo bolts lying around to choose from and the longest one worked. They came from varying sources...

I think I either ended up with a stock WRX brake caliper banjo bolt or one of the bolts that came with my Goodridge stainless steel brake lines.

You just need an M10x1.0mm banjo bolt.

If you need to source one online I would imagine Earl's part number 997517 would fit, since I'd expect them to make them work with their own fittings: http://www.bakerprecision.com/adapt9.htm

I wouldn't worry about the holes not lining quite up. It's a hydraulic system, so everything should be full of fluid anyhow.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:09 am

Thanks Vikash.

I'll call a few places tomorrow and see if they have banjo bolts. I'd prefer to find locally so I can bleed the system and continue on with things, rather then have to wait for parts.

But if I can't find any, I'll use baker as a last resort.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:58 pm

You could probably have a machine shop mill down the banjo a little bit... just have to make sure that the copper gaskets still fit on each side with enough contact area.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:23 am

Don't I want 977517 since the banjo I bought from them is .425" in height?

I went to four different parts stores, and one hardware store, and none had anything.

There's one specialty hardware store I'm going to call tomorrow morning. If they don't have anything, I'm going to have to order it from Baker, and probably do two day air or something.

arrrggghhh.......more on that in my rant thread.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:28 am

I'm sorry; you're right. 977517 would be what you want.

Tonight when I leave school I'll try to take a look at my clutch line and see if I can tell which bolts I used on the master and slave cylinders.

I just thought of another thing -- I think I used copper washers that I bought at AutoZone which were somewhat thinner than the OEM crush washers. Maybe that made it easier. Do you have AutoZones near you?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:39 am

yeah I do.....however I'm this far along with things, I'll probably just get the ones from baker. There's really not too much thread there.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:54 pm

no go....just ordered them from baker. Should be here thurs or friday at the latest.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:58 pm

Sorry I forgot to post this last night after checking it -- but I checked, and what I used were stock WRX front brake caliper banjo bolts (part number 26536AA001, with 12mm heads) and the thinner 10mm washers AutoZone sold me. It's been good and reliable since I installed the setup about a year ago.

But I s'pose the Earl's bolt is the best way to go.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:56 pm

it's alright. If for some reason baker doesn't get the parts out today, I suppose I'll have to look at that option instead.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:33 am

I started getting the orientation of where the slave cylinder goes and such. that thing is going to be an unbelievable bitch to bleed!!

Even with just one line. Wow!

The AT wiring harness is drooping down in the way. I'm probably going to pull the coolant line off the heater core and move the harness above it to keep it out of the way.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:50 am

It's not so bad to bleed. Here's a trick: bleed it normally, then push the piston back into the cylinder as far as you reasonably can. You'll see it force some of the air back up into the master cylinder. Then bleed it again. You'll actually have pretty much all the air out at that point.

Also, I say using a vacuum bleeder and a speed bleeder (M7x1.00mm is the size; same as the WRX front brake calipers) is definitely the way to go... the pedal doesn't return to the top on its own so to bleed it conventionally you need one person hunched over the engine bay and one person kneeling on the ground next to the driver's door. With a vacuum bleeder and speed bleeder you can do it all in the engine bay with one twist of the wrench each way each time.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:00 pm

I'm trying to get a body to help me tonight. If I can't find anyone, I'll try the vacuum bleeder.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:16 am

Bled the clutch with the vacuum thing first....friend came over and helped after I did it initially.

It feels pretty good. There is a very small bit of play in the top of the pedal. It's very very little, because he and I were moving the pedal just a little bit and I saw the piston move. I would think that it wouldn't do that if air was in there.

it just feels weird. at the very end of the stroke it just sort of snaps back rather then being smooth. maybe it's a subaru thing....beats me.

Also that bleeder point does not look like the heighest point in the slave cylinder. I may remove the slave cylinder....bring it above the master cylinder and try bleeding it one more time.

On another note. I got the banjo bolts from baker. I was rather pissed! They're not really any longer at all. I think they were less then 1/16" longer.

I went to autozone to get the smaller washers and used those with the baker banjo bolts. I'm going to write them an email.....there's no way I would have felt comfortable using their banjo bolts, washers, and banjo fitting. There would have been hardly any thread left.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:34 am

All Subaru hydraulic clutches I've driven have a little bit of play at the very top of the travel. You could probably eliminate some of it by adjusting the master cylinder's actuator rod but I don't think you're supposed to.

Did you do the thing where you push the slave cylinder piston in?

That's nuts that the banjo bolts were were so short. I hope they refund your money at the least.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:09 pm

You have to remember when I got the master cylinder and pedals everything was apart, and I adjusted the clevis pin and such when I put them on. For the most part I think they were they should be. I'll take a look and see if there's any free play. I don't want to "preload" the master cylinder, but if I have a little bit of dead area in there, I'll take it up.

Yeah I did push the slave cylinder in....can't say it really helped. It didn't seem to get really firm until I had a second person there to hold pressure on the system.

I used the banjo bolts they sent. They were just a tad bit longer....so I used them. I'm just not happy they are selling stuff that doesn't work properly together. There's no way it would have worked well if I would have used their washers.

here's some pics of the banjo bolts

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3359.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3360.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3361.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3362.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3363.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_3364.JPG

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:59 pm

Are those silver-colored washers aluminum? Or are they just plastic protectors?

Those don't actually look too bad... Keep in mind that it's a super-fine thread. Much deeper and you might risk interference problems with some fittings.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:41 pm

yeah they were aluminum.

Everything should be alright with the smaller washers.

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vrg3 - your SS clutch line

vrg3 - your SS clutch line