Scared.

[scottzg]

It's not fun anymore. Since i got my liscense, 5 years ago, I've been driving up hwy 9, our local 20 mile twisty road, about twice a week. I know it perfectly. But since i replaced my suspension, i've been making fewer and fewer trips up the mountain. Car handles great, but I'm afraid to really drive it.

In order to get any power induced oversteer, ive got to charge the turns uncomfortably fast. I don't have the power to initiate anything otherwise. It's scary. I can enter slower, and im still faster than i was, but its just not any fun. On a track, i have no trouble, and it's a blast. They say "you step up your level, you take a few lumps, and you end up better than you were." Not such good advice when mountain driving.

On top of it, I've been to two car meets since the work was done. Both of them involved a drive in the hills, and both of them involved an accident where someone understeered either into a guardrail or a ravine. I feel if i keep searching out the new limits of adhesion, im gonna become intimately familiar with where they arent.

The whole deal kind of makes me wish i had a different car.

[Brat4by4]

A different car how? One with less ability?

What tracks have you driven that you refer to. I know that going to BeaveRun satisfies any speed/acceleration/turning cravings I may have on public roads for a looooong time.

And the problem more than likely falls on the loose nut behind the wheel. No personal offense, that's the general term . If you work on improving yourself as a driver then you will be able to do more with whatever you have. Professional instruction is so amazing that you can't really describe it with words. And no... I don't drive faster on public roads now after some lap time. But I DO know the limits of a given car a whole lot better. And just small improvements in your driving line reap great benefits. I regularly smoke all kinds of cars on a particular curvy road with my 73hp GL Hatchback. And it isn't the 13" front snow tires or rear torsion bar suspension that gives me the advantage...

[scottzg]

Track- i mean autox. The speeds are low enough to make the most of my meager power. Additionally, the consequences of going off a track (parkinglot track or otherwise) are nothing compared to going off track on a mtn road.

Yea, possibly a car with less ability. I'm more interested in enjoying the experience than going really really fast. Going along at a good clip happens to be fun, usually.

I know the problem lies in the driver. I'm scared to push the envelope and am not having as much fun w/o pushing it as i used to.

Torsion beam rear suspension is better than macpherson struts, unless you're offroad.

[Brat4by4]

Take an auto-x advanced driving school (can't remember what they are called) or get instruction at a road course. I highly recommend the latter.

When you get some training, you are handed a much larger envelope and you are very happy to play inside it... perfecting your lines and such. And in many cases taking it easy is much faster than it was with the old untrained envelope. And you don't have to worry about understeering into a guardrail or valley (which is just ridiculous) because you actually KNOW the limits of a car.

[Legacy777]

I don't particularly care for auto-x. It's such a short time in the car, you never really get a groove down.

I wouldn't mind taking my car out on the track and get some good instruction as well.

[professor]

Auto-x is hard on the car, too. Whereas most driver's school and track events focus on being smooth, auto-x done fast is anything but, and if your car has any weakness it will be quickly revealed.

My first time out I cooked a wheel bearing which started making noise on the way home, and scarfed the crap out of a pretty good set of tires

[evolutionmovement]

Old Japanese cars are high on fun with low performance parameters. I still miss my 1983 & 84 Subarus for the tossability and torquey engine that surprised a lot of other cars.

Steve

[azn2nr]

i love the curvy roads. i wouldnt have it any other way. yes i drive better in my 88 civic but thats because the suspension chassis and weight make it a 90 hp gocart with no body roll. in the sube my tires up until 2 days ago were never ballanced, one has trouble keeping air in it and is flatening as we speak slowly but surely in my garage. when i have driven it in the mountains durring meets everyone is a loose nut and im considered consevitive in my driving style even though i maintain about 75 mph on these roads. i get scared to but it also gives me a high that nothing can top. acceleration in multiple directions stimulate the adrenal glands more than just speed does.

there is no better way to explain it than "being scared is a good thing"

[Yukonart]

Also, bear in mind that on a track, if you fuck up . . . you might just be in for some minor damage to your car and ego. . .

. . . on the roads, you fuck up. . . things can be much, much worse. Roads are always more dangerous because they're not controlled conditions. Changes in pavement consistency, traffic, wildlife, etc. . . just be careful, Scott.

[BAC5.2]

Maybe you need to ask yourself, why are you modding the car? Why did you do the suspension?

You have increased the cars ability to handle, but you are so afraid to experience it, that you no longer have fun. Why did you do it in the first place?

When I got my car, I just wanted an ultimate street car. Something that could do everything I wanted it to do, and be everything I wanted it to be. I'll never be able to safely experience the limits of my car on the street, but that's fine. It's the thrill of the hunt, making the times that I am driving at 6/10ths enjoyable without having to push the envelope at 11/10ths. If I ever feel the urge to hop down 2 gears and slide a little, I can do so. If I ever want to hunker down in 3rd, and lay tracks and slip smoothly around a long sweeper, I can do that too.

It reminds me of my morning commute this morning. I was running late, and on a particular stretch of road that I enjoy driving very much.

I didn't even get into 1/2 of my cars available power, and I was exploiting maybe 1/2 of the handling ability, but it was fun! Just the actions of moving the clutch and slipping through gears, focusing on the next 5 turns all at once.

If you don't have fun anymore, why did you do the mod that took the fun away?

[scottzg]

Good question, bacman.

I replaced the suspension because i blew up my old struts going off a jump.
I wanted something i could autox- and in that capacity, i am very happy. Even cruising up the road its much much faster.


Safety- over 400 mountain drives and nary a misshap. I've had to stop for deer more times than i can count. I enter turns slower than necessary and peg the throttle all the way through. So long as i don't lift too quickly and upset the balance, I can stop in the middle of a corner taken this way. Trouble is, it takes longer to get up to the speed of the turn, and i feel anxious about entering faster safely.

If i were wealthy, id have two options; turbo or driver school. Unfortunately, im a student living off my loans. Not feasible.

Really, i just miss having more power exiting a turn. It's fun. I'm considering getting some hard compound tires so i can lower the adhesion w/o increasing body lean- i dont miss all that lean.


You know those crx 'momentum' cars? Yea, it's kind of like that.

[douglas vincent]

Now that I have the SC installed, I can accelerate uphill fast enough to get in trouble. While I may do my fair share of straightline acceleration, I am VERY cautious in any situation that involves traffic, curves or both. I Have two kids, have had an accident or two WAY back, and plain and simple, just dont want to leave the tarmac for any reason.

I have a brother who has a 350 wheel hp Jetta that is totally tricked out with complete race suspension. Complete sleeper. Eat you all alive on the the go (too much power for stoplight launches). I have ridden with him once for about a 10-15 minute "race" where we where chasing my brother in his Imprezza TS. The Imprezza was pushing it at about 110%. The Jetta was pushing it at about 80% of it capabilities.

At the end of the run I told my brother I never wanted to be in his car again like that unless it was on a race course. It was that insane AND we were NEVER in any situation where the traction would have broken free (why should it, it is a $40k car!!!!)

I have a love/hate relationship with that car. First off, it is unbelievable power and handling. UUUUGGGGHHH BAAABY! Second and hated, is that it can kill you so fast. If I accellerate for 5 second from 60 mph in my SC legacy, I will hit 80 mph, normal passing with some power. Yeah I am going fast but just a "tad". If I accellerate for 5 seconds from 60 in my brothers car, I am doing 100 or more. DANGEG DANGER WILL ROGERSON!!!! Immediate death if someone doesnt see you as you pass at an insane speed.

What am I saying? While my car is enough power wise usually, I would love to have more but my rational brain says never to ever attain the power of 350 WHP cause you would kill yourself unless you could somehow only use it on a controlled track. Therefore, someone please buy me a racecar. Thank you.

[evolutionmovement]

Scott, one of the reasons I miss my old cars is that you had to keep up the momentum and the cheap tires allowed plenty of sliding without going much faster than traffic. And if I ate the tires quick, who cares? New 13" tires were like $38.

Steve

[scottzg]

Scott, one of the reasons I miss my old cars is that you had to keep up the momentum and the cheap tires allowed plenty of sliding without going much faster than traffic. And if I ate the tires quick, who cares? New 13" tires were like $38.

Steve

For serious! Thats why i miss my bmw. new azenis tires- 40 bucks. Not much power, but rwd, so it was enough. I'm not sure id want to slide around in traffic though...

[evolutionmovement]

Haha, no I didn't mean sliding IN traffic, I meant that I didn't have to go real fast to have fun.

Steve