My strange headlight wiring...

[farfrumwork]

Ok, so I was poking around my newly acquired '93 SS to find why I had no high beams. I find that the connector has been altered by the previous owner and now i am trying to figure out what was done....

The RED (high beam) connector has been removed from the H4 tri-socket.

The other 2 (yellow/blue and red/blue(or white)) are in place.

it all looks kinda like this (looking at the socket):
(yellow)
--
(red) | | (red/blue (or white)
(removed)

if that "graphic" is worth anything...?

I reconnected the red into the socket and then I think my high/low beams were backwards (high beam brighter but filled in beneath the low beam pattern). weird.

Also, the way it is set up (with red lead removed) I get a great angled beam cut off ___// ____// , which seemed to NOT be there when I reconnected the Red. I like the pattern but want high beams.

Any insight as to what is hapnin' here?

Thanks,
Chad

[vrg3]

To do text diagrams, use the CODE tags.

So someone pulled the red high beam wires out? On both sockets? Weird.

Your low beams are supposed to have the __/ beam pattern.

So when you put the red contact back in, exactly what happens? The low beams continue to work correctly? But the high beams somehow are completely misaimed, illuminating below the low beams?!

The only explanation I can think of for that is damaged headlights... is there any indication that someone's messed with the light housings, reflectors, or lenses?

[professor]

**incorrect info removed**

[professor]

***ditto***

[vrg3]

High beams don't usually have sharper cutoffs than low beams. Low beams are the ones that have to avoid blinding other traffic. All good low beams have cutoffs just below the horizontal. All good high beams don't. The difference between high and low beams is primarily beam pattern. Both beams should always be in focus.

On cars with dual-filament headlight bulbs, the low beams turn off when the high beams are turned on. To burn both filaments would overheat the bulb quickly and catastrophically. Sometimes the unpowered filament will heat up enough to glow when the other filament is powered, which may be what you're thinking of.

The beam pattern Chad's getting without the red wire connected is definitely the low beam pattern.

[farfrumwork]

I'll reconnect the red wires again and pay more attention to the outcome

But from what I saw yesterday, when I hook the red back up the low beam shoots high and scattered and the high beam fills in underneath... and I think it altered the __/ pattern.
I reassembled it (with no red wire) due to the fact that I don't know what was done elsewhere!?!?!?? I don't get a highbeam indicator on the dash either way

The headlights seam to be in fine condition, and the harness seams intact as well. It is running Xtra Visions (which is what I was going to put in)

Very strange.

[vrg3]

Uhh... Connecting the red wire shouldn't be able to change the low beam.

Wait a minute.... it looks like the wires have been mucked with more than is obvious.

This is the pin specification of the H4/9003 bulb (looking into the wiring harness socket):

Code: Select all

       Low
       ---
High |     | Common

The low beam wire is yellow with a blue stripe. The high beam wire is red. The common wire is blue with a white stripe on the driver's side, and red with a blue stripe on the passenger's side.

Check that all the pins are where they should be according to this information.

[farfrumwork]

I think that is the way it is... yellow on top. Maybe he changed something under the dash?!?! or maybe I was seeeing things when I was playing with it(?)

I'm going to pick her up from the mechanic tonight (60kmi T-belt service ) and I'll inverstigate.

Thanks for the input.

-Chad

[farfrumwork]

ok, so the connector is set up as you described. Yellow on top Red/Blue on right, and the Red is disconnected (but was on the left).

Apart from the percieved pattern change, which I agree is not likely (or really possible for that matter).... it appeared as though BOTH elements would light up if I engaged the high beams (when I had hooked the Red lead back up).
This is probably why I though the pattern changed, and good reason for the previous owner to pull the high beam lead (to keep the bulb from blowing with both elements burning bright!)
So.... where under the dash/instrument panel would I look for altered wiring? or is it controlled via a relay? (thinking a relay a blown that switches off the low when the high is activated)

sorry for the novel, THANKS for the help!!

-Chad

[vrg3]

Hm. There isn't a relay that switches off the lows; that's supposed to happen just by how the lighting switch works.

I think you should figure out exactly what's happening. Disconnect the bulbs and use a voltmeter in all the various states to check what's really going on instead of trying to guess based on the beam pattern and amount of light.

The information you need to diagnose this properly is in the electrical manual Josh has posted on his site:

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... ectrical)/

The relevant pages are 293, 294, and 306.

My suspicion is that you might need to replace the "combination switch" that contains the headlight switch stalk.

[farfrumwork]

ok, so I am an idiot. The disconnected red lead just threw me off I guess (that's my only explanation)

I checked the output at the connector in High/Low/Off and all is working right (with about 11.6v, hmmm relay harness next...).

I put everything back to stock and it seamed to work fine - lows and highs. I have not had it out in the dark yet, but suspect it will be fine. Thanks vrg3! it was helpfull.

I still don't know WHY the red lead was undone, maybe it was related to the lack of high beam indicator on the dash (?).

anyhow - thanks again.

[vrg3]

Glad it's sorted out now, so you can drive more safely.

So the high beam indicator on the dash works now too?

[farfrumwork]

ok, so it is NOT ok

I drove down to New Mexico for the holiday and guess what... the high beams will just come on! both the high and low beams were on, and I couldn't get it to switch back to just low independently (I could turn the lows off, but the highs were still on).

I didn't have a meter with me, but it is obvious that both beams were running at once by aiming them at a wall. I have now disconnected the red (high) lead again and the lows are fine.

I noticed that it was working normally (high or low) for like 5min then I swear I heard a "click" in the dash and the highs would stick on. This explains why they registered correctly the first time I checked with a multi meter .

So I think you're right vrg3 - my combo switch is f'd up somehow.
Maybe I'll get in there and see if a cleaning is possible and effective (perfect time for a wrx steering wheel upgrade ). If that doesn't work I'll just get some Hella Micro DE's in the driving pattern to use for highs, then I can get the Yellowstars I want for the lows (It's winter and snowy here now, and CO roads are horribly marked!)

anyhow, thanks for the help and I'll post any results from the cleaning at a later date.

-Chad

[vrg3]

D'oh. That sucks!

Until you can replace the combination switch, you might want to temporarily just wire your high beams to a separate switch. Your brights won't be as easy to access as they should be, but at least you'll be able to use them.

Unfortunately, I don't think cleaning is going to resolve your problem. Dirty contacts usually cause the opposite problem -- things don't turn on when they should.

Yellowstar high beams should be plenty usable. Driving lights are good (though I'm not sure the Micro DE is the best choice), of course, but you won't need them just because you install Yellowstars.

I don't see what the driving lights and Yellowstar bulbs have to do with the combination switch problem though.

[farfrumwork]

was just thinking out loud.... No real correlation between the driving lights and Yellowstars. Just made me think of possiblities. And yeah, the yellowstars would be fine high beams I 'spose - I've only used them as fogs (H3's) in the past so I'm not sure how it would perform as low/high beams, but I'm sure it would be alright.

I like the DE's for their size mostly (mounting options), I realize other models would give a better output/pattern.

I guess I should look into combo switch costs. If the swich is much more than a set of driving lights I might just do the auxilary lights for highs - although I would like to actually fix the problem, it's nice using the stalk for switching low/high.

later,
Chad

[vrg3]

As far as I know, the only Micro DE driving lights from Hella are HID and cost the better part of a thousand dollars...

Again, I don't see how installing driving lights is an alternative to fixing your broken combo switch. What does it matter where the wires go?

If you decide you don't need/want to be able to use the stalk to control your high beams, just wire your stock highs to a separate switch. Stick in a relay to cut the lows off when the highs come on. I don't think that's a good long-term solution, though -- you want to be able to flash your high beams without taking your hands off the steering column. You might not pass a safety inspection without that ability; I don't know for sure though.

Try looking in the Parts Shed to see if anyone has a good used combo switch, and if you don't find one maybe post asking for one. I'm sure another board member can help you out.

[farfrumwork]

again, I was just thinking out loud and my thoughts are sometimes not "all there"

My "thought" with the driving lights was that I could have Better high beams, than than the stockers... but you are right either way I'm wiring (stock highs or new aux lights) so it's not really a benefit other than having possibly better lighting. and yes, I was thinking of wiring the aux lights to a seprater switch (not column controlled) but I would rather have the stalk switching ability.

I thought they sold non-HID driving micro DE's??? but I could very well be wrong. (and no I will not buy $800-1000 lights )

I will go through the FSM and figure it out, which means I will most likely replace the combo switch.

thanks

[vrg3]

Apparently the combination switch isn't as hard to access as I thought... I thought you had to pull the steering wheel but apparently you don't, given dscoobydoo's instructions on changing the wiper stalk:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=19022

I might be mistaken about the Micro DEs, but I was pretty sure... They were originally exclusively fog lights, but then they saw the demand for driving lights but had to use an HID capsule in order to get enough out of such a small lamp.

I have Hella FF75s on my car right now, and they're okay. I picked them because they were fairly inexpensive and small and light enough to be easy to mount. Very subjectively, they're about as good as another pair of my high beams (bear in mind that my headlights are a little better than factory because I've upgraded the wiring harness and put in Xtravision bulbs). I'm going to try a pair of FF50s though. They might have a little better output because of their more rounded shape.

I'll probably sell cheaply whichever pair I don't keep on my car.