Corvair vs Subaru

[schspeedster]

1960-1969 Chevrolet Corvair
* 6-cyl boxer engine, aircooled, rear engine
* 140-164 c.i.d (about 2.2-2.6 liters)
* Rated 80 to 140 hp N/A, 180 turbocharged
* Cars weigh about 2500 lbs, vans more
* Awesome traction with weight over rear wheels, also awesome oversteer, scary with 1960s tires
* No power steering needed.
* Rear weight bias equalizes braking, pretty good for all-drum brakes with no power assist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvair

[schspeedster]

Corvair SCCA autocross page
http://autoxer.skiblack.com/

[THAWA]

Swing axle?

[schspeedster]

Swing axle?

Early models used swing axle, later models used a completely different suspension.

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/handling02.html

GM Promotional video of new 1960 Corvair used for extreme driving, crash testing offroading, & driving thru water, pretty impressive for a Chevy using 1950s tech!
http://www.archive.org/details/Corvairi1960

Time trials 2005
http://www.archive.org/details/RyanCoun ... meTrials_0

[scottzg]

the later ones use a transverse leaf spring in the back. The turbo on those things is about 2 feet long- its bizarre. The early models tend to cook themselves. The early models have horrendous suspension, and ralph nader made his name bashing them. Interesting cars, they got replaced by the camaro.

If you ever get to follow one with the swing axles, watch the camber change when it goes over bumps, it prolly does 10 degrees.

[professor]

give me a '65 corsa convertible in black

one of my favorite cars of all time

[entirelyturbo]

The horrific suspension setup, coupled with the RR drivetrain setup, was the reason the Corvair was named "the worst handling car ever" and officially by the government as "unsafe at any speed."

I was always intrigued by the belt setup. The crank pulley was in its normal position, but the cooling fan sat on top of the engine, so the belt had to make a 90º bend to reach it, so the alternator was placed right at that bend to help keep it in place.

And they say the Japanese make their cars weird.

[scottzg]

The horrific suspension setup, coupled with the RR drivetrain setup, was the reason the Corvair was named "the worst handling car ever" and officially by the government as "unsafe at any speed."

911's had the same set up for 30 years.

[All_talk]

The horrific suspension setup, coupled with the RR drivetrain setup, was the reason the Corvair was named "the worst handling car ever" and officially by the government as "unsafe at any speed."

911's had the same set up for 30 years.

As did the best selling car of all time... the VW beetle!

Nader is a hack, he had a vendetta against the Corvair for personal reasons and was looking to make a name for himself.

Did the Corvair handle differently than the american pigs of the time? Yes. Is it inherently unsafe? NO! Stupid americans just cant learn to drive a car that requires some skill at the limit.

The balance of a rear engine car under braking is superb, which is one of the reasons that the Porsche 911 has more wins that any other chassis in all of motorsports.

Gary

BTW, the 90 deg belt setup is a bit funky but worked well in the stock RPM range, if run to fast it would through the belt.

[schspeedster]

Did the Corvair handle differently than the american pigs of the time? Yes. Is it inherently unsafe? NO! Stupid americans just cant learn to drive a car that requires some skill at the limit.

Tire tech has come a long way in the last 50 years. Corvairs came equipped with 13" bias ply tires. If radial tires even existed, they would have been exotic performance tires back in the day. Tire pressure was critical on Corvairs, 10 higher on the rear, , most drivers dont check tire pressure unless looks flat, garages dont read stickers just inflate to "MAX" on tire sidewall.

'82-'92 Camaro wheels bolt on late models, including 16" IROC's.

Would be nice if GM would release a updated Corvair. Since aircooled motors pollute, an update of their prototype 1966 Electrovair II electric car with today's EV tech. Corvair is good platform for DIY conversion, as it doesnt need power assist for brakes & steering. The way gas prices are going maybe will be my next project:

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/monzapr7.html

"Electrovair II was powered by silver-zinc batteries in a 532 volt array driving a 115 hp AC-Induction motor. Top speed was 80 mph (129 kph) and range was 40 to 80 miles (64-129 kilometers). The 3400 lb (1542 kg) sedan could accelerate from 0-60 mph (0-96.56 kph) in 16 seconds. It's interesting to note the electric Corvair was almost 1,000 lbs heavier than the stock version. Control was Solid State."

[scottzg]

modern tires would just exacerbate the extreme camber issues.

Assuming the car handles like a old 911, they're not so horrible to drive fast if you're a decent driver, but if you brake and swerve to avoid something, badness.

As did the best selling car of all time... the VW beetle!

maybe i should figure out how to rig up a beam front axle...

[Manarius]

Tire tech has come a long way in the last 50 years. Corvairs came equipped with 13" bias ply tires. If radial tires even existed, they would have been exotic performance tires back in the day. Tire pressure was critical on Corvairs, 10 higher on the rear, , most drivers dont check tire pressure unless looks flat, garages dont read stickers just inflate to "MAX" on tire sidewall.

I run my tires at highest allowed pressure..is there some sort of issue with that?

[scottzg]

I run my tires at highest allowed pressure..is there some sort of issue with that?

It's not the best for grip or even tread wear. Remember that when you drive, the friction and braking heat makes the air in your tires expand.

[entirelyturbo]

911's had the same set up for 30 years.

911's had swing-axle suspension???

[evolutionmovement]

Torsion bars and struts, IIRC.

Steve

[entirelyturbo]

Right. So that's why they have excellent handling, and Corvairs have disastrous handling.

[scottzg]

semi trailing arms on the 911. Can't trust me for anything. I wouldnt say they have 'excellent' handling.

[entirelyturbo]

I'll elaborate: excellent handling when driven with skill. A novice driving a 930 would be spinning like the Mad Hatter Tea Party.

[dzx]

Corvair engines come apart fairly easily. We had one in a 911 a while back that was beefed up and it lost its insides on the highway under wot. Had to collect the parts and reinforce the block. Not a bad motor tho.

[All_talk]

semi trailing arms on the 911. Can't trust me for anything. I wouldnt say they have 'excellent' handling.

yep, semi trailing on the early 911, same as the later ('69+) beetle, but FWIW the earlier 356/550 cars were swing axle and handled quite well for their day. I believe the early Mercedes SL cars were swingaxle and noted at the time for there good handling, also many smaller european sports cars were swingaxle like the Triumph Spitfire. Now thats not to say the setup of any suspension type isn't important, and the early Corvairs may not have been so well tuned, but I still place the major "bad handling" issues of the Corvair to inexperienced drivers.

Gary