Wooohooo....uh...crap.

[legacy92ej22t]

I filled up at the pump yesterday and for the first time since Katrina I paid under $3 per gallon for premium!

Now there's Rita, all the oil platforms that just got back online are being shut down again. There's still something like 4-5 refineries off line in the NO area and with the Galveston/Houston area set to get slammed by Rita, they're shutting down a bunch there now too. 1/4 of our oil refining comes out of the Houston area so we're screwed. Gas will soon be $4-$5 a gallon and then we'll all be happy for $3.50 a gallon and they'll (oil companies) keep putting it to us like a short eyes just hitting cell block D.

The worst part is my fucking Tahoe. When gas was $3.19 for Regular it cost me $90+ to fill up! That last about 3-4 days too. My wife commutes around 85 miles a day and while she and some co-workers just starting carpooling we still spend $450 a month just in gas for that big white turd.

Anyone want to buy a Tahoe?

[snowboarded]

Why do you think it was named a ta- HOE?

[0perose]

gas prices have been doing the two steps forward, half a step back thing for a while, merely to appease the masses... notice how it never quite goes down to what it was?

[scottzg]

I kind of like the gas prices. Encourages the smaller vehicles we should be driving anyway, and keeps the cars off the road. I guess im perverse.

Prolly gonna buy a motorcycle.

[All_talk]

I drive 175 miles a day to work and back... quit you bitchin short milers. I paid $3.22 this morning... thats around $420 a month.

I recently made the switch to premium and gained more than enough mileage to cover the extra cost. Added benefit is MUCH better performance. Currently I'm getting about 27-28mpg with mostly freeway driving (cruise at 70/75) and a few full booting freeway ramps. ('91 SS 5MT)

Gary

P.S. my wife drives the Great White Whale ('97 Suburban)... good thing she only does about 30 miles a day.

[snowboarded]

...I recently made the switch to premium and gained more than enough mileage to cover the extra cost. Added benefit is MUCH better performance. Currently I'm getting about 27-28mpg with mostly freeway driving (cruise at 70/75) and a few full booting freeway ramps. ('91 SS 5MT)

Ummm, you just switched to putting premium in your '91 SS?

I hope I am misreading this because you should always use premium for a turbo legacy.

[Richard]

I hope nobody takes offense to this, but I must get this out. I'm not picking on anyone, just trying to spread a little wisdom and common sense.

Why is it that you need a huge suv just to go to and from work? Are you carrying a large amount of goods to and from on a consistant basis? Does your family of 5 need all that extra legroom and a place to lay down if you're tired? Do you have a boat or large trailer that needs such a vehicle to pull? Do you think that having a large vehicle will make you look cool? Did any of this occur to you when you decided to purchase this vehicle?

SUV's should not be used as a status symbol. Take into consideration all of the giant gas guzzling machines when you see the U.S,' rising demand for oil. When the times were good, everyone thought they'd stay that way. The trend seems to depict that the price of oil will keep going up due to the rising WORLDWIDE demand for it. China has been booming. It's taken them a decade to grow and industrialize where it took us nearly a century to do the same. What can we do about China? Not much.

Look at the facts about our own country's ability to drill and refine oil. Not one new refinery in the last 30 years. It takes at least 20 years to get through all the red tape to actually build a refinery. No joke. And that's IF you can find a place where NIMBY and tree huggers won't cockblock your efforts until you leave.

There's oil in Alaska. Lots of it. We can't drill because the Caribou might get disrupted. Nevermind that the same argument was used against the Alaskan Pipeline in which animals now walk right under. Nevermind that the proposed area, which is a virtual no-man's land to begin with, would be minimally affected if all the work was done during winter.

There's oil off the coast of California ready for the taking. Oil rigs could be up in less than a year or two. But we have to study the environmental effects of drilling. A process that will take 10 to 15 years. Will they drill after they find out that crabs and fish will have to swim around the steel structures? Nobody knows.

Nevermind that plane crashes, terrorist strikes, or category 5 hurricanes occur more often than oil spills. Nevermind that there would be no need for giant oil supertankers if we didn't have to rely so much on foreign energy.

The tree huggers demanded reformulated gasoline. We now grow corn for the purpose of making ethanol, a gasoline additive. Nevermind that we could feed alot of hungry people with this government-subsidized crop. Nevermind that we get worse mileage and potentially cause harm to our engines. Nevermind that this government mandated alternative causes the price of ALL gasoline to be higher due to supply and demand. The results are in about the emission-reducing factor of this fuel. It causes MORE POLLUTION!!! We have to burn MORE ethanol-added gasoline compared to unreformulated gas to go the same distance. The state of Wisconsin is trying to make this corn gas mandatory statewide, not just for major cities. The DNR released a report that doing this would create 12 million tons of additional pollution EVERY DAY.

If you want to blame someone for the high prices at the pump, here's the two biggest culprits.

Environmentalists - ready and willing to stand in the way of any attempt to make our country more self sufficient in terms of energy production. Can't drill for oil, can't put up a power plant, can't build nuclear reactors without having these cooks show up to sing songs, smoke pot, and protest. They are so quick to shut down any idea for energy production, yet never come up with any good alternatives. They advocated wind generators in my state until they realized birds might fly into them. And solar panels take up too much green space. Nuclear energy is the best option for electricity production. How many nuclear accidents have happened in the US? None. They're so safety oriented that a tiny drop in pressure in a pipe shuts the whole system down. But no tree loving maniac can understand that because they have no desire for other's needs, facts and opinions. They're too busy weaving baskets to take a class in simple economics, too.

The American Public in general - where our need for energy comes from. The need to cover our houses in 10 million watts of light every Christmas. The desire to drive the hugest vehicles to go buy a birthday card and a gallon of milk. The ineptness to turn off electrical devices when not in use. The endless cycle of watering the bejeezes out of our lawns so we can fire up our 30 horsepower riding lawnmowers with dual stage cutting chambers, mobile audio system, built in retractible flamethrowers and seven cup holders three times a week. All to have a one-up on our neighbors.
For those who want to blame large corporatons, here's a news flash: they wouldn't exist if we didn't have a need or desire for their goods or services. Nobody is going to put up a factory to make anything unless there's a demand for it and a profit margin. They're not in the business of charity or losing money. They provide us all jobs through directly hiring people to work and indirectly through the trickle down process. I certainly wouldn't build washing machines that dyed clothes a poopy color and made them smell like rotting milk. You wouldn't either. Why? No demand and no way to make money.

We have only ourselves to blame for our dependancy on energy. Not that I advocate living in caves and wiping our butts with leaves or anything, but we need to acknowledge our individual part in creating and expanding our own double-edged sword.

BTW Matt - there are over a million SUV's for sale on the internet. Be prepared to get very little for your's if you sell it. That's supply and demand at work.

[Tleg93]

Your concept of what an environmentally conscious person seems a little stereotypical to me, although it's not untrue. Not all people who care about the Earth are jerkoffs and we don't have to live like there's no tomorrow. It doesn't hurt to look for sensible ways to curb our destructive tendencies.

Some shit is ridiculous though. The bird and wind farm thing is a good example of that. But I think you have to pay attention to the details to sort out what's bullshit and what isn't. It's not just a pure right and wrong thing. There are PLENTY of wackos on BOTH SIDES of the fence. But I think that saying that to care about the environment is to be a pot-smoking, liberal drone isn't entirely correct. There's plenty of greedy, selfish capitalists who smoke herb too.

Big corporations (oil companies etc.) do not have your best interests at heart. They exist to make a profit, that's all, and they'll lie, cheat and steal to make it. The shit that goes on with oil and gas prices isn't purely market driven. The people who own the methods of production can do whatever the hell they please.

BTW, we have had a near miss at at least one nuclear plant. TMI, which is near where I live almost went nuclear. Did you know that the cool water valve that stuck open was known to be a possible issue among the private, government subsidized contractors that installed it? The contractors that built the plant blew the valve issue off and didn't follow the proper protocol in dealing with it. They even tried to cover the whole thing up IIRC.

[legacy92ej22t]

I know I can't sell it, that's the problem. I have earlier threads that refer to my not being able to sell it for what I owe on it still. I'm upside down.

For your information though, yes, I do sometimes pull a boat and yes, I do have 2 kids in car seats and 1 more on the way and I also have a hybrid that's as big as a Great Dane that need to be able to fit in the back with a stroller, the groceries a diaper bag and whatever the hell else I may need to throw back there. I'm fully aware of what I got myself into and am paying the price but the larger vehicle was and still is warranted, no lectures needed.

My previous "family" car was a '98 Forester S and when my son was born we couldn't even get his car seat in the back unless we put the front seats all the way forward. I'm not super tall but it put the steering wheel in my chest and my knees in my face. Wasn't working out. It was either get a Tahoe or Expedition because I sure as hell wasn't going to sport a minivan!

[All_talk]

Ummm, you just switched to putting premium in your '91 SS?

I hope I am misreading this because you should always use premium for a turbo legacy.

No you are not misreading, and yes you "should" always use premium, but I'm cheap and drive a lot. I've only been driving the SS for a few weeks and it runs OK on regular. I never really flogged it on the cheap stuff, If you do trounce the throttle you hear just a hint do detonation then the knock sensor does its thing and the timing rolls back, performance is down but the engine isn’t self-destructing.

But as it turns out it cheaper to run the good stuff, leason learned.


In response to Richard, some I agree with, some I don’t, but I will defend my SUV (’97 Suburban) ownership…

First off, its not a status symbol for me, in fact I feel like a bit of an ass driving around in the damn thing, it’s a huge pig. BUT, we do use it and could even make an argument for “need” it. We are a family of five with teenage kids that play in rock bands and have lots of friends, I’m the guy that hauls everybody everywhere. I have a 4-place snowmobile trailer and 16’ flat bed that I pull with it. When my wife started working she need a newer vehicle that I could trust and didn’t have work on all the time (I’ve got my hands full with my car and my two oldest kids beaters). I was tired of renting or borrowing bigger rigs or driving two cars halfway across the state to a gig, not even the smaller SUVs would cover my needs. If I could afford two car payments I would get something small for my wife’s daily use, but until the Suburban is paid off its gonna have to cover all needs.

Gary

[Tleg93]

and 1 more on the way

Congratulations on that, btw. If you don't mind me saying, it's a good thing.

[legacy92ej22t]

Oops, I guess I let the cat out of the bag there, didn't I?!

Thanks.

[professor]

for those looking for an alternative to uber-sport-utes, I rode with six other adults in a one of the loaded Honda Odyssey minivans recently. I was damn impressed. We all fit easily and comfortably, the nav system is awesome, and the array of ICE options is mind-boggling

if I had another kid (3 instead of 2), or if my folks lived nearby making excursions with more than 4 passengers routine, I'd be all over one of these things. For us a wagon is ideal but for more, the Odyssey is the best I've seen

It is FAR more comfortable than a Suburban, which another friend of mine owns (6 kids( ))

[Tleg93]

I want kids too!!!

[BAC5.2]

MATT!!!!!!

[Manarius]

Ok...I have a couple things to say here...but...take them cum grano salis (all you Latin people will know what I mean)

The root of the gas price problem lies in two major areas:

1: Refinement. We haven't built any refineries in America in the past 30 years thanks to tree hugging bastards like Ralph Nader. Think about it like this: Say we had 6 refineries working at 100% of their capacity. Now you take two out, and gas prices soar. This is the kind of system we have now. Instead, we should have 12 refineries working at 50% capacity, so we could shift the work around if need be. But noooooooo, we can't do that.

2. Oil Companies' gouging of the American Public. I recently heard a statistic that with the price of gas at the moment, the average barrel of gas should cost about $95 (figuring in a small profit amount and subtracting the hideous amount of tax on it). However, the current price per barrel is like $65. Where's that other $30 per barrel going? That's right...into the pocket of the gas company.

The fuel industry is the ONLY industry in America that is basically unregulated. They can raise rates any time they damn well see fit. The power company, on the other hand, can only raise rates if the state commission that regulates its prices says it can. Now, it works the same way with phone companies as well. Is this right? No! Gas companies need reeled in.

(I'll stay away from TMI atm. I'll tell you this though: If we had even...15 more Nuclear Power Plants....gas prices would be less)

As for SUV's: I can understand why people want them. I myself will never buy one as they break down easily, wear out easily, and, of course, go through gas like crazy.

But, alas, no one wants to hear it from a HS student.

[Richard]

I never said there wasn't a need for suv's. If you can't find another vehicle with the capabilities you need, than an suv might be for you. However, there is always a better way of doing things. Using the suv as a special use vehicle comes to mind. It really irkes me to see someone driving an Excursion and being the only person in it.

A family of five can easily fit in a Crown Vic and have space for groceries. A scooter can't be used for this purpose. But why does it take the whole family to go grocery shopping? There's a choice involved there.

Tleg93 - here's a tidbit. Pounding one's wiener flat with a wooden mallet and saying it'll hurt is stereotipical.

Not all environmentalists are tree smoking tree huggers. Not every corporation is evil. But it is the extreme cases that get the most attention. Sure there are some sensible environmentalists out there, but it's the ones that form human chains and brandish bullhorns that give the rest bad names. Its the Enrons of the world that make all corporations seem like crooked institutions. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

But you can't dispute the fact that they wouldn't exist if there wasn't a need for them. I cant buy a barrel of crude and refine it as cheaply as TEXOCO can. Niether can you. I'm not going to give a free pass to the oil companies. They're guilty to some extent. But we are a market driven capitalistic economy. If there was less demand for oil, the price would eventually go down. But the demand will never decrease to a rate that it has increased from. Hype and speculation from CNN about gas shortages causes people to panic and fill up their tanks. If they did the same for twinkies, grocery store owners could in fact get away with charging a quarter more to make a profit. Who's the culprit? Supply and demand. Nobody will pass up a chance to make a buck. Nobody. That's what our economy is all about. As long as we keep filling our bellies with fast food that comes in a giant throw-away plastic container, there will be a demand for oil. As long as we keep wanting to drive suvs because of our lifestyle choices, there will be a demand for oil. As long as we have the need to buy goods derived from petroleum products, there will be a demand for oil. And as long as we keep paying, companies will keep selling. And making a profit.

Take this with a grain of salt from the plastic shaker it came in, which is made out of oil.

[corsair]

are everyone but Scott, Phil and I missing the far bigger deal here?

Congrats Matt!

[legacy92ej22t]

If you can't find another vehicle with the capabilities you need, than an suv might be for you. However, there is always a better way of doing things. Using the suv as a special use vehicle comes to mind. It really irkes me to see someone driving an Excursion and being the only person in it.

So you are saying that everyone that may actually need to have a big SUV because of family and/or towing or whatever should have another car to drive around in unless they're actually using the big SUV for it's special purpose? I'm sorry but that's the most unrealistic thing I've ever heard. Not everyone can own multiple vehicles and if they need a big SUV to fit their needs, are they not supposed to use it to get groceries? What would you have them do, join in with the neighbors and carpool once a week to the store? (a noble idea though, aye?)

A family of five can easily fit in a Crown Vic and have space for groceries. A scooter can't be used for this purpose. But why does it take the whole family to go grocery shopping? There's a choice involved there.

A family of five can't fit in a CV with luggage, a dog, strollers, car seats, groceries and whatever else they may have. What about a family of five that is 1 parent and 4 kids? Is the parent supposed to just leave little kids at home alone or are they supposed to pay someone to come watch their kids while they go shopping? Is that the choice you speak of?

Oh and last time I checked the CV wasn't an eco friendly car either, especially the V8. The thing's a pig.

I've noticed that you are very long-winded, opinionated and passionate about a lot of things but it's all still just your opinion, nothing more. A lot of what you're saying sounds very thought provoking but when broken down isn't as well thought out as you would like everyone to believe. It's not as cut and dry as you're trying to make it out to be.

You are a good writer though.

[legacy92ej22t]

are everyone but Scott, Phil and I missing the far bigger deal here?

Congrats Matt!

Thanks!

[BAC5.2]

Matt - E-mail. Check. Now!!!! Can't keep a brotha in the loop? Congratulations, and if it's a boy, name it Phil!

[Richard]

We can try to speculate and hypothesize on all the different hypothetical situations. Not one answer fits all. That is something I acknowledge daily.

Something else that I acknowledge is that I often rant. My hope is to help people, not piss them off. I myself have an open mind and am welcome to the opinions of others.

We can all try to come up with our own answers to our own situations. My opinions shouldn't be regarded as the one size fits all final conclusion of the truth. I can only hope that I can stir some creative thinking in those who read to come up with better answers for their own situation. I'm sure that I'm not looking at every single angle of society. But if I can spark thought in an otherwise clueless mind, those I help will be better to make their own decisions and answer their own questions. We're all on this planet together. Better personal choices will serve us all better. I aplogize if my dialogue seems critical and harsh. I'm only trying to help.

We can all agree that we have our own opinions. They're like a$$holes, everyone's got one.

legacy92ej22t wrote:

You are a good writer though.

Thanks. Just the product of a corrupt and underfunded school system.

[legacy92ej22t]

Not one answer fits all. That is something I acknowledge daily.

Right, which is why just because you see someone alone in an Excursion doesn't necessarily mean they are a lone yuppie that is only driving it as a status symbol. Who is to say that they don't usually have 6 kids in tow?

Something else that I acknowledge is that I often rant. My hope is to help people, not piss them off. I myself have an open mind and am welcome to the opinions of others.

I am very open minded and tolerant of others views and opinions (that wasn't a dig was it?). I'm also not pissed off. I just have no need for a lecture (and wasn't looking for one); I've heard it all before. I was born in Ashland OR and grew up in Eugene Or. These are two of the most liberal towns in the US. I've been surrounded by "tree hugging hippies" (from the other thread) my entire life, including my own parents. There is absolutely nothing you can say on this subject that I haven't heard my entire life.


This thread also wasn't about my Tahoe. It was about the fact that just as gas was finally going down, Rita is set to hit and make thing even worse then Katrina already has.

I'm sure that I'm not looking at every single angle of society. But if I can spark thought in an otherwise clueless mind, those I help will be better to make their own decisions and answer their own questions.

So who among us has a clueless mind? Who are you trying to save? And who is to say who is clueless? Is it people who have different views and opinions then your own? Why are your views so enlightened that the rest of us need to head them? It seems like a very self-righteous attitude to me.

[snowboarded]

That is awesome Matt!!! Congratulations. I'm sure you and your wife are psyched for it.

[Richard]

I can only hope that I can stir some creative thinking in those who read to come up with better answers for their own situation. I'm sure that I'm not looking at every single angle of society. But if I can spark thought in an otherwise clueless mind, those I help will be better to make their own decisions and answer their own questions.

Clueless - individuals who keep doing the same things and expecting different outcomes. Nobody here in particular. I'm just trying to generalize the typical American attitude. Sure, there are many people who can fix their own problems. But I see more and more that are held hostage by their own decisions, searching for others to make answers for them.

Matt - you obviously seem to have your situation under control. You're looking to sell the Tahoe. I hope you don't take all my posts as being directed towards you. They're not. If I seem self-righteous, that's your opinion. I'm not trying to preach. Many people, not here but in real life, have used similar commentaries of mine to find their own answers. I was a social worker temporarily while I was looking for a higher paying job. I helped quite a few people acknowedge their own actions as being the root of their problems. We called it self destructive behavior, and it's hard to get away from. I'm not saying that this is your problem, but we are often affected by poor decisions on the part of others.

Back to the real issue. What can we do to make gas prices better? Call your senators and congresspersons. Write them letters. They ultimately have the power to make things happen. Tell them that we need to provide our own energy as a country. Let them know that drilling for oil and building refineries are key to our nation's stability and not stand in the way of new development. Remind them that there are people other than the naysayers that feel strongly about energy production. Describe how 30 years of no new refineries has hurt you and your situation. Tell them how stalling oil drilling doesn't do anything to help the supply and demand crisis we are facing. If enough people do this, they will listen. My state has two Democrat senators and quite often they do not make decisions based on what the general population thinks. But they do change their tune when enough people write them. This may be the solution for fixing our long-term situation.

As for now? Many answers are out there and they start with doing things for ourselves. Riding a bike, driving less, taking a bus, carpooling, buying more efficient vehicles, etc. etc. etc.. We are capable as humans to find answers for our own problems. Often it takes a small change in the way we act.