Clevite bearings

[93forestpearl]

Just wondering what you guys thought about Clevite engine bearings. Or Cobb, Toga, or whoever else there is. I looked into OEM bearings and it is definately a no go. $250 just for the rod bearings. I think not. $120 for rod and main bearings sounds a hell of a lot better in my book.

[dzx]

Go with what you can afford.

[BAC5.2]

The problem with aftermarket, is they rarely have the quality control and spec percision of OEM.

You should call the companies and compare the allowable margin of manufacturing error in their bearings. If they are less than stock, or the bearings you receive are of lesser quality than stock, you should demand your money back.

Think about it. A car company manufactures more bearings than any aftermarket company ever could (or whoever the car company outsources bearing manufacture to does). How can a company who has produced less units charge 1/2 the OEM peice? Something has to give.

In reality, a rod bearing or something shouldn't wear THAT much if it's had a good, properly lubricated life.

You should try to find a good deal on OEM bearings, rather than sacrifice for less.

TOGA looks good, but you should call and ask them to identify what they mean by OEM. Do their bearings conform to OEM spec of tolerance and material, or do they claim they MAKE the OEM bearings. Or do they make OEM bearings for another make/model, or possibly product (lawn mowers or something).

Find out, and maybe you CAN score a good deal.

[93forestpearl]

I'll have the time because I need to let my paychecks catch up. I've spent about $1100 in the last two weeks. My block, along with my Wiseco pistons, is at Midwest Engine here in town getting bored .020 over, honed, and cleaned up. The estimate on the block work is about $150. The guy there said he would sell me Clevite's for $6.50 apiece. I know they are a pretty big name in aftermarket high-peformance bearings. I like the fact that this area has a slower economy so alot of stuff can be cheaper. I've paid as low as $250 a month for rent.

Anyways, I've got a pretty badass intercooler on the way as well. The deal was too good to pass up. 30x6.5x3.5 with a Spearco core for $275. It'll barely fit where I'm putting it, but I'll make it work.

What I really need is a nice torque wrench before bearings and seals.

What I don't get is how they get $250 for four rod bearings. I think supply and demand is definately coming into play here. Subaru doesn't sell many and its its probably a PITA to keep making/stocking them in small numbers. I dunno, I'll look into it.

[douglas vincent]

I wonder if bearings are like piston rings. Common sizes. You just have to pick and choose IF you know what you are doing.

[206er]

I bet matching the metallurgy of the crank to the bearings is a big deal too, and the aftermarket probably doesnt do it quite as well as subaru. stuff like intake manifold gaskets its ok to go aftermarket but on bearings? super high stress and critical parts. If I ever rebuild a bottom end Ill go with oem. the $100 or whatever difference is cheap peace of mind.
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has tons of experience with rebuilding subarus.

[douglas vincent]

$139 for rod and crank bearings here!

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

[Legacy777]

I forget the name of the company that makes subaru's bearings....but subaru does outsource them. CCR were the ones who told me.

[93forestpearl]

I was gonna say...I think all this hype about OEM is blown a little out of proportion. I can't get what I need from Subaru. Where I'm going with this, the rods are questionable. The pistons are obviously a no go. I'm not gonna pay over $400 for bearings that are outsourced anyways. Stock stuff, though I'm not saying its bad, is not gonna handle the breath from a gt2871r. Many motors are built upon Clevite and Toga bearings, especially ones that don't have perfect primary and second order balance. Archer Racing does just fine and they deal with Viper V10 junk.

Don't forget that the OEM game is also a business game. It is isn't all-out engineering. Most manufacturers outsource a lot of stuff, and more often then not, give the contracts out based partially on cost. They aren't gonna go with a high end part when something less expensive will do the job required. These motors don't come from the factory with over 400hp in mind on their parts. If it came from subaru that way, they would do things differently. Why else would certain parts nullify warrenties on cars. They weren't designed and tested for that kind of output.
I'll probably go through importperformanceparts.net, since I already got my pistons there.

[NICO]

factory is the only way to go, i dont think its one bit out of porportion my motor has everything from the factory in it, an it has +700000ks i drive it everyday. the ej22t motor is a special motor its rare with special needs that only the factory can give you.

my 1988 mazda 323 gtx is in the same class you can only get the factory parts for it, aftermarket just dont cut it.

it goes the same for gear oil i put synthetic in my tranny, it blew 3 times then i put the factroy oil in and i cant break it now. same goes for the gas in japan they use like 100 octane, the cars end up in northamerica and we only get 94 octane out here, to make the car run right with long life we need the good stuff.

[BAC5.2]

OEM is usually more reliable than aftermarket, simply because of strict quality control.

It may not have been built with 400hp in mind, but it was built with working in mind. And if the tolerances aren't there with the aftermarket parts, then you could be shoulder deep in shit when your motor fails.

Compare whatever bearings you DO get, with OEM to at least ensure proper and exact OEM fit. That's the biggest reason for staying OEM. How many times have you had an aftermarket part not properly fit?

[93forestpearl]

How do we know that OEM quality control is as strict as you think. Like said before, a lot is outsourced, including their bearings. Tolerances of machining is not a direct indicator of quality. Anyone can spend $100k on a mill or a lathe, but there is a lot more to a bearing than cutting it to size.

Factory pistons? I think not. Rods? Same deal. Forged materials are on a whole nother level. Yes, the rods are forged, but designed to do their jod reliably, which is handle 160hp for hundreds of thousands of miles. Not deal with over twice the stress, and have a dencent factor of safety. Factory rods are good, but are not optimized for weight vs. strength. Also, they are designed around manufacturability. Much less machining goes into the factory rod than say a H-beam. Like I said before, the business aspect plays a large part in engineering.

The same goes for the rest of the engine. Yes, the block is special. It was designed before teh FIA mandated a 32mm restrictor in WRC. This block was built to handle the stress. The rest is designed to the job that is required and to do it economicaly. How else can they make a profit? This isn't no-holds-barred enginneering like NASA where they can spend $800k on a #8 panel. Turning a profit is the basis of any business. If they can save a buck on a bearing and have it still do the required job, they do it without question.

But, like I was saying, we don't know what kind of tolerance specs are on the OEM bearings. Am I supposed to call up Subaru and ask, "Can I get the tolerance specs on the engine bearings from a 1991 EJ22T?" For many serious engine builders, bearings are sized after measuring journals, and then caps are sized according to the size of the bearing, and often times machined for exact squareness. We are lucky because we don't have to deal with this kind of slop due to the basic design of the boxer engine.

I won't deny that I have some research to do, but don't dismiss someone because they didn't start the party.

[hackish]

Even though the factory pieces are not bad you have to consider that bearings on subaru engines take a real beating when the horsepower is being cranked up. I can change the rod bearings fairly quickly on a Honda or Mazda engine but a subaru engine is a whole different story.

Anyone building a performance engine will blueprint their tolerances anyway so I don't think the sizing thing is that much of an issue. Let's not forget how many clevite bearings are made every year - they're not exactly some guy in a machine shop somewhere...

Personally I would go for aftermarket bearings if I were you. Pay the price because the tradeoff can be expensive.

-Michael