Conditional Status

[tris91ricer]

As some of the local crew know, my rap sheet is almost a page long.
I've racked over a dozen traffic infractions, since earning my license in November of 2002.

This brings a letter from the Washington State DOL stating that
". . . A driver receiving 4 traffic infractions in 12 months, or 5 in 24 months. . . . . . is subject to a driving privilege suspension for a period of not less than 30 days. . . . . . In the Interest of Safety."

Apparently this is above-average.

My question to you, and, something I've been thinking about, is this:

Does a number a traffic infractions reflect /measure on the ability of the driver? (Ie -- people tell me "I'm a bad driver". )

On one hand, I think Traffic Enforcement is a game; we all speed, at some point, for whatever reason. Its the polices' job to catch us at it. Kinda like capture the flag, in a sense.

But what do you think?

[93forestpearl]

I've had 3 tickets in my 8+ years of driving. I've noticed in my travels that enforcement depends on place, time, and situation. In my town, cops don't really bug you untill 15 over, but that also depends on time and place. I don't do dumb shit in stupid places, like weaving through traffic or getting ass-out in a busy intersection. I think just knowing your area and enforcement's habits can go along way in preventing tickets. That and going to court if you do get one, but thats a whole nother thread.

But to answer your question, number of tickets doesn't neccessarily reflect upon one's driving ability, but driving ability can mean different things. It may reflect on how savy one is on what I talked about above.

[douglas vincent]

Does a number a traffic infractions reflect /measure on the ability of the driver? (Ie -- people tell me "I'm a bad driver". )

12 in 4 years. Hmmmmmm

You may not be a BAD driver, but I suspect you are not a SMART driver. No insult intended. I have no idea what all 12 of your tickets are so I can't pass judgement one way or the other.

However, I have not had a ticket (knock on wood) since 1990. And yes, I occasionally deserve one. But when I do deserve it, it for the most part is not where I can get one. ie, break the law where there is no law.

[LaureltheQueen]

You're a bad driver.

[MrSarcastic13]

You know what the difference between a good girl and a bad girl is? Bad girls get caught.

Replace driver for girl and that tells your story.

Damien

[Kelly]

You know what the difference between a good girl and a bad girl is? Bad girls get caught.

Replace driver for girl and that tells your story.

Damien

Ya.

Spot on.

[206er]

I think you may be unlucky. I drive like an asshole and consistently 10-20 over the limit but only have 1 ticket.

[555BCTurbo]

Tristan, no offense to you...I think you are a great dude!

Your driving leaves a lot to be desired, and after riding with you a bit at New Years, I can understand why you have so many citations.

I drive like a bat out of hell too...and I have had my license for over 4 years, and have one ticket which was dropped...

It's all about place and time

[Tleg93]

We all have areas we need to grow in. Yours is in the area of driving and all of the attributes that go along with it such as knowing where cops will sit and things like that. I can tell you that I've been down the same road (no pun intended). Let's see, going way back I had about six speeding tickets in the early years, three accidents (minor), passing a stopped school bus (four lane highway coming from the other direction in the farthest lane over - not intentional), two license suspensions and one driving an unregistered, uninsured, off road vehicle on state roadways.

Time passed and there were many trouble free years and then it was three more speeding tickets, driving without a license(twice), narrowly avoided another 6 month suspension, and finally capped it off with a DUI. How am I doing? I had a wake up call.

It's not funny and I'm not proud of my past driving record. I've changed some but I wouldn't say that I'm the safest driver...when I'm alone. Put someone else in my car and I go slow and I'm more alert as well.

[tris91ricer]

Thanks for the input.

I know I'm probably a flagrant driver, but I do have skillsth.

[Manarius]

You don't have the skillsth not to get caught though

I find that it's not about how well you drive, it's about how smart you drive. If you go flaming down the highway 10 above everyone else, you're asking for a ticket. If you go flaming down a back road though at 25-30 above the limit, while that may be a bit stupid, at least it's smart speeding.

And I don't know about WA, but local cops in PA don't have Radar; so you don't speed through VASCAR lines. If cops in WA had Radar, I'd be far more careful.

[tris91ricer]

Not only do they have radar, but they've got a pretty decent menagerie of speed measuring devices (smd's).

I think since the car is paid for and all that, I'm just gonna sell it back to F4 and buy a camry.

The end is too near, and I couldn't live with myself if something bad happened with this car. Jesus and I need to have a chat.

[entirelyturbo]

Like what everyone else has said, it doesn't make you a bad driver as far as car control, but it does mean you're not a smart driver. Again, as the others have said, no offense.

Now that I'm doing deliveries and have time working against me during the day, I drive more like an asshole than ever in the delivery truck (which is a Mazda B3000, so basically a Ford Ranger 3.0 V6, and what a pile of SHIT!!!). I'm frequently doing 70 in 45's, squeezing under red lights, I've drifted through dirt lots when I needed to turn around, and in one instance I was about 500 feet from the end of a school zone and I just said screw it and floored in the rest of the way.

However:
- The 70 in a 45 is a road that is kind of a backroad that no one takes, and there's never any cops. I could do 100 if I wanted, but I don't know if the truck will get to 100

- The close calls with red lights, I've gotten real good at scanning the intersection first to see if there are any cops around and quickly make my decision from there

- The school zone... I had already come through it the other direction under the speed limit, so when I came through again, I knew there were no cops so I just went for it.

- The drifting through dirt lots, well, that's just for the hell of it

Part of it is knowing your town, and especially, where the cops hang out. There is a downhill corner on my way back from school, it can be quite fun at speed. But I never haul ass through there, because about a quarter-mile ahead is a known spot for cops to perch and check your speed. I've seriously come through that section at speed, with others staying with me, then approach that corner and slow down and watch the other people get caught

I have not gotten a ticket in 3 years (although I've received 2 warnings since then), and - knocking on wood desk - I don't plan on getting another one anytime soon.

[BAC5.2]

I was at Matts house in PA and got pulled over. The cop told me "Son, you got a loud car, and we notice that."

I didn't know whether to apologize or say thanks.

I almost got a "failure to control vehicle" ticket in the winter (a few winters ago) for drifting in the snow. I thought it was ridiculous, I was perfectly in control! I got off with a warning to "fuck around in bigger parking lots next time."

[free5ty1e]

Yeah, I find that the law's idea of control and my idea of control greatly differ.

[555BCTurbo]

Thanks for the input.

I know I'm probably a flagrant driver, but I do have skillsth.

See...that's your problem...being overconfident is what kills people...you keep pushing the envelope until you crash into something.

I bet that if you went out with a driving instructor (like from Skip Barber, etc) they would be scared shitless with your driving and telling you that you were doing a lot of things wrong.

[evolutionmovement]

I got pulled over in the snow in my GL sedan once, though I wasn't actually breaking the speed limit. The cop thought I was driving too fast for conditions because he had trouble catching up to me in his cruiser. I told him these Subarus don't even notice snow and flashed my Sylvania (lots of extra duty employer) ID. Got a warning.

Tricks to highway speeding: Vigilance; don't be first in line, nor last; bad weather is safer in terms of cops; try to stay out of the passing lane except to pass (like everyone SHOULD do); always look as far ahead as possible (vigilance); slow down for weigh stations, etc.; watch breakdown lanes and entrance ramps (vigilance); if letting someone else run the gauntlet, keep back far enough to be able to brake and remove suspicion if a cop is sighted; watch other cars' behavior (mass braking for no apparent reason, sudden bunching, 'body' language); never pass a cop; speeds higher than cop cruising speed (usually 90+ around here) are (obviously) safe from travelling cops, but will get more (bad) attention from hiding ones; do not have a car that stands out in looks or sound or fits a nut-job profile (this dark-colored Mazda3 has cruised through several traps where the old ratty-looking wagon or my old done-up GL's would've gotten nailed. Dark colors are best).

When I've followed these rules, I've never been tagged and I've never used radar. I also sometimes get precognitive 'gut' feelings about hiding cops too, but I have no idea how anyone would mirror that technique.

In town speeding, you're on your own. I generally keep it within reason, though. Usually in cities you can get away with a lot more than towns.

Always remember, that these techniques will not help you with aircraft! Don't ask me how I know.

[Yukonart]

Tristan . . . I know you've heard it. Driving skills and driving experience are two VERY different ideas.

1. Skills mean you have what it takes to drive a car well, and quickly (if the time calls for it), and precisely.

2. Experience means you know when and when not to practice some of those skills. It also tells you that, even if law enforcement isn't around to see it, there is a time and a place for certain driving behavior.

I've been driving for about 18 years. For the first 11 of them I drove with a radar detector. For several years it helped save my ass from speeding tickets. In that time I "earned" myself no less than FIVE speeding tickets, despite the "protection".

What of the last 7 years I've been driving? TWO speeding tickets. One was dropped after taking it to court. It was probably the dumbest thing I'd done in a car, speeding through a KNOWN trap area on a Friday night. And the other was in the STi a little over a year ago. I got off I-5 in Everett and headed up the overpass (hauling ass). What I didn't know was there was a county cop at the light in my blind spot waiting for the signal to change. I gave her a front-row show of what the STi could do. She was pretty upset about it (visibly) and wanted to give me a fat ticket to impress her ride-a-long, I'm sure. . . but I pulled away from her so hard (which she was sure to mention) that she had no idea what my speed was. Got exceedingly lucky with a "5 over" ticket for $101 . . . that I let stick to remind me that I'm being stupid. Turned-out that I was eligible for a deferral, so I took it. I deserved to be ticketed for doing what I did (probably 60+ in a 35).

Experience has saved me more than anything else. I drive fast ALL the time, but I also drive smart, nearly all the time. I drive much more carefully at night, and during the day I do my best not to do something so far out in the open that I can be singled-out. Like anything else, spirited driving should come only with experience. Otherwise, I'd suggest a HPDE after some training.

[Legacy777]

Well said Art.

I've clocked a fair amount of miles in a lot of different states, and while I still drive fast....I drive more conservatively and smarter then I did when I was 16.

Hopefully you'll grow out of it before you have a major wreck, or get into serious trouble.

I'll give you guys a little story involving my brother. The summer he turned 16, my mom bought him a Mazda 323 hatch back. Not the turbo one, just the plain old 323. The night before I left to drive back to PA for college, a truck or something was tailgating him with their brights on. He panic'd, and slid the car off the road, hitting a tree....and almost down an embankment.

I don't think he got a ticket for that, but later him and his friend pulled the fender out, and decided to drive it up the road with the front end busted up. One of the neighborhood retards probably called the cops, because on the way back, a cop pulled him over for driving the car without proper safety equipment or whatever.

Well after that, he bought another 323 n/a....drove that for a while...got a couple tickets. Then decided he wanted the turbo AWD version 323. Well despite everyone telling him not to get that car, he bought it....got more tickets, basically spent shit loads of money replacing the motor & turbo.....etc.

Then one night there was a speed trap....he was of course speeding....and decided to run...for whatever reason. He finally pulled over, got handcuffed, car impounded, and dropped off in downtown Seattle at the police station.

I loaned him $1,400 for a lawyer & to pay the fines to keep his ass from possibly going to jail. He lucked out......didn't go to jail, but did have to do community service and live with what he did.

All I can say is....use your brain....that's what it's there for.

[Tleg93]

The dumb thing about my misadventures is that all of the speeding fines were for only going over the speed limit by like 10mph on the interstate and that one of those times that I was pulled over I had just simply forgotten to renew my license. The officer pointed it out to me in a nice way that it was expired. I didn't recall getting the letter to renew it.

The other time I was caught for having an expired licese I was on my way to the DLC to get a picture for the new one. I got off because at the time I was pulled over, I had my camera card with me. I found out that in PA, camera cards are valid as a license for 60 days from the time your license expires, so, I was mistakenly cited. It was a small fine and I didn't think it was a big deal until I got the notice for a six month suspension. I learned that if you get cited twice in a five year period for driving with an expired license it's an automatic six month suspension. Anyway you slice it, it's dumb though.

[555BCTurbo]

+1 to Art and Josh


My only speeding ticket, since I got my license in 2001, was in my stock 1300 Volkswagen. It got exponged too...so my record is squeeky clean!

I drive the Legacy like a bat out of hell...but I don't do it in the city, I live in enough of a rural area, that once I get outside of city limits, hammer down...I just pick my time and place.

I do have a radar detector...but as I learn more and more about the way that police officers work (as I am going to be one), they don't have to have you on radar to give you a ticket, so I feel the detector's only real use is on the freeway, where the Troopers use radar and LIDAR.

[All_talk]

I guess I'll take up the old man POV (though I would have thought Art would have covered it )

Foolproof way to avoid speeding tickets... Dont Speed! And if you choose to speed and get caught its your own damn fault so no whining.


Continually getting tickets says nothing about your car control... but speaks volumes about your self control. Remember its not your road (my wife and kids use it too), and even if you are in complete control at all times (which I doubt) your actions may cause an unsafe reaction from other drivers... and thats still your fault. The basic rules of the road are based on safety and courtesy, its not about the man keeping you down... in fact its not about you at all, last I checked you are not the center of the universe.

Wow, this is getting harsh... sorry, I'll quit, and its not directed at any one person. Last point...

Driving is not a right, its a privilege granted by the state and they can revoke it at there discretion.

Damn I'm getting old
Gary

[Tleg93]

It's good point out that overly cautious drivers can be a hazard too or overly curteous drivers. Just tonight I was in the passing lane...speeding on my way to work (72 in a 65) and there was a group of cars merging onto the road. Well, a lady in the slow lane decided she was going to be 'nice' and let the people merging onto the road. The thing is, they're supposed to yield when merging and it's actually a ticketable offense to enter the passing lane to let people merge. They're supposed to yield, damn it. Why don't people get this simple fact. You never change lanes to let someone in, even if there's nobody on the road. It's their job to either slow down or speed up to get on. Changing lanes is a hazard. I'm not against changing speed to let them get on but if they don't take the cue I'm not moving over.

[evolutionmovement]

Slow inattentive people are the absolute biggest menaces. I can't tell you how many near misses I see because of them everyday (I drive a couple hundred miles a day now). Speeders I can deal with, but the whack-a-dos who have no clue what they're doing are almost impossible to predict.

Slow assholes blocking the passing lane and forcing people who actually have places to be and things to doa and people who want them there when they arrive to drive more dangerously to get around them when possible.

There are no accidents, just stupid people not paying attention or knowing what they're doing or how to do it. Higher general freeway speeds would be perfectly safe were it not for these mutants. Speeding in towns is, of course, not a good idea especially with all the retard pedestrians who jump into traffic without looking. If you're speeding, forget it - there goes your front end and insurance rates. I found this to be most prevalent in Chinatown and I don't know why that is, but I'm thankful I don't have to deal with that area of Boston much.

[snowboarded]

Being able to drive and being a driver are two seperate things. Nobody needs to fly arround like that all the time. Speaking form personal experiences and agreeing with most of the others' posts. know when and where to drive spiritedly. drive well, be happy.