93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

Carl Andersen · Post by **Carl Andersen** » Fri Oct 06, 2000 9:58 am

Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor. My wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I thought maybe we had a solution.

However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but it backfired several times.

I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.

Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my 91 wagon?

Thanks again to all.
Carl

Michael Ekstrom wrote:

Hi guys,

just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the same problem
with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after running it
on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as K/N) for 1
1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here, and I first
tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed me abt
$100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by loaning
another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs abt $400
here
in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna change it before
beeing sure that its broken...

Good Luck !

Michael

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
wrote:
> Your theory is correct Josh,
>
> Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes are
> notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to increased
speed
> of intake and intake surges.
>
> Problem can be overcome by...
>
> - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a finer
pitch
> weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor... without
shielding
> it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true intake charge.
>
> - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic alcohol, to
> remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire. ie. the same
> reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much fruit loaf,
> splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form hot-spots.
>
> John Gillon
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo" <jcc189@p...>
> wrote:
> > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving around and
the
> car would
> > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher revs. If I
put
> it in
> > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring it back.
The
> car
> > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I couldn't
> bring it
> > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss out it to
keep
> it
> > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die. Let it sit
for
> a minute
> > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I had been
having
> this
> > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow sensor.
> Replaced it and
> > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not something you
> really wanna
> > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the whole thing
is
> that it's
> > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> >
> > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some feedback to
> see. I'm
> > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters and
> such...screws up
> > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to be a
> coincidence. I
> > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years before I
> started gettin
> > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> >
> > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end with
> everything else.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > josh
> >
> > ************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > jcc189@p... < mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > ************************
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdanders@t... [ mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
accelerating.
> >
> > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> >
> > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer, and or die
> > when
> > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop off fast if
> > you
> > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it will last
for
> 20
> > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes will back
fire
> > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town speed it will
die
> > and after several minutes of setting it will start and operate
fine
> > again.
> >
> > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I have changed
the
> > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium gas "90
octane
> or
> > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past. Our generic
> > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have changed the O2
> > sensor
> > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> >
> > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I change
> > plug
> > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested in any other
> > suggestions or similar experiences.
> >
> > Thanks to all,
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Fri Oct 06, 2000 10:37 am

Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just loose all power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev it, but if it's at a low idle, it just dies?

If these are pretty close to your symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on my page under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how. www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.html

Let us know what you find

Josh

************************
Josh Colombo
jcc189@psu.edu
************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@tconl.com]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor. My wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I thought maybe we had a solution.

However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but it backfired several times.

I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.

Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my 91 wagon?

Thanks again to all.
Carl

Michael Ekstrom wrote:

Hi guys,

just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the same problem
with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after running it
on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as K/N) for 1
1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here, and I first
tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed me abt
$100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by loaning
another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs abt $400
here
in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna change it before
beeing sure that its broken...

Good Luck !

Michael

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
wrote:
> Your theory is correct Josh,
>
> Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes are
> notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to increased
speed
> of intake and intake surges.
>
> Problem can be overcome by...
>
> - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a finer
pitch
> weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor... without
shielding
> it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true intake charge.
>
> - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic alcohol, to
> remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire. ie. the same
> reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much fruit loaf,
> splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form hot-spots.
>
> John Gillon
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo" <jcc189@p...>
> wrote:
> > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving around and
the
> car would
> > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher revs. If I
put
> it in
> > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring it back.
The
> car
> > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I couldn't
> bring it
> > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss out it to
keep
> it
> > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die. Let it sit
for
> a minute
> > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I had been
having
> this
> > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow sensor.
> Replaced it and
> > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not something you
> really wanna
> > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the whole thing
is
> that it's
> > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> >
> > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some feedback to
> see. I'm
> > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters and
> such...screws up
> > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to be a
> coincidence. I
> > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years before I
> started gettin
> > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> >
> > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end with
> everything else.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > josh
> >
> > ************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > jcc189@p... < mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > ************************
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdanders@t... [ mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
accelerating.
> >
> > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> >
> > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer, and or die
> > when
> > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop off fast if
> > you
> > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it will last
for
> 20
> > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes will back
fire
> > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town speed it will
die
> > and after several minutes of setting it will start and operate
fine
> > again.
> >
> > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I have changed
the
> > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium gas "90
octane
> or
> > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past. Our generic
> > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have changed the O2
> > sensor
> > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> >
> > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I change
> > plug
> > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested in any other
> > suggestions or similar experiences.
> >
> > Thanks to all,
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Alan Croxford · Post by **Alan Croxford** » Fri Oct 06, 2000 12:07 pm

Hi Carl, Sounds like fuel the way that you explain it I have heard of
fuel pumps that when checked will check ok for pressure but not
deliver enough volume, as intermittant as it is you might check
connections at the fuel pump relay and the relay also we had a
problem
on a Impreza with a connector under the rear seat also connections at
the pump. you can swap coils when I installed my engine I had two
coils tried both and found the one marked "Diamond" worked best?? One
way I found to check on the MAF was to connect a small digital
multimeter to the signal input at the ECU and check it when it starts
to act up. I have been running a K&N filter for some time with no
problem but the foam filters are giving problems.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo" <jcc189@p...>
/wrote:
> Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just loose
all
power,
> and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev it, but if
it's at a
> low idle, it just dies?
>
> If these are pretty close to your symptoms, I would be 99% sure the
MAF is
> what is causing it, but definitely check the ECU for codes. There
is
> instructions on my page under notes & tips how to get the codes if
you don't
> know how. www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.html
>
> Let us know what you find
>
> Josh
>
> ************************
> Josh Colombo
> jcc189@p...
> ************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE
>
>
> Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor. My wife
thinks
> the plugs have made it run smoother and I thought maybe we had a
solution.
> However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would test
it and as
> she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut out again. She was able
to
> revive it before stopping but it backfired several times.
>
> I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be able
to
pick up
> the plug wires this afternoon.
>
> Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know the
Mass air
> is expensive so could I trade the coil with my 91 wagon?
>
> Thanks again to all.
> Carl
>
> Michael Ekstrom wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the same
problem
> with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after
running it
> on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as K/N)
for 1
> 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here, and I
first
> tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed me
abt
> $100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by
loaning
> another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs abt
$400
> here
> in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna change it
before
> beeing sure that its broken...
>
> Good Luck !
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
> wrote:
> > Your theory is correct Josh,
> >
> > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes are
> > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to
increased
> speed
> > of intake and intake surges.
> >
> > Problem can be overcome by...
> >
> > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a finer
> pitch
> > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor... without
> shielding
> > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true intake
charge.
> >
> > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic alcohol,
to
> > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire. ie. the
same
> > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much fruit
loaf,
> > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form hot-spots.
> >
> > John Gillon
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
<jcc189@p...>
> > wrote:
> > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving around
and
> the
> > car would
> > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher revs.
If I
> put
> > it in
> > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring it
back.
> The
> > car
> > > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I
couldn't
> > bring it
> > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss out it
to
> keep
> > it
> > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die. Let it
sit
> for
> > a minute
> > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I had been
> having
> > this
> > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow sensor.
> > Replaced it and
> > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not something
you
> > really wanna
> > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the whole
thing
> is
> > that it's
> > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > >
> > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some
feedback to
> > see. I'm
> > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters and
> > such...screws up
> > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to be a
> > coincidence. I
> > > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years before I
> > started gettin
> > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > >
> > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end with
> > everything else.
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > ************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > jcc189@p... <mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > ************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cdanders@t... [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
> accelerating.
> > >
> > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > >
> > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer, and
or die
> > > when
> > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop off
fast if
> > > you
> > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it will
last
> for
> > 20
> > > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes will
back
> fire
> > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town speed it
will
> die
> > > and after several minutes of setting it will start and
operate
> fine
> > > again.
> > >
> > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I have
changed
> the
> > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium gas "90
> octane
> > or
> > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past. Our
generic
> > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have changed
the
O2
> > > sensor
> > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > >
> > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I change
> > > plug
> > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested in
any
other
> > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > >
> > > Thanks to all,
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Carl Andersen · Post by **Carl Andersen** » Fri Oct 06, 2000 2:04 pm

Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the error codes that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now and they are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery cable off overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only assuming they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.

The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and had us at the side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be revived by simply floating the throttle and being patient.

I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had vapor locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen only after driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing down for slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is more frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few miles of normal driving.

My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93 and replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.

Feed back always welcome,

Carl

Josh Colombo wrote:

Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just loose all power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev it, but if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty close to your symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on my page under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how. www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know what you findJosh ************************Josh Colombo jcc189@psu.edu************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen [ mailto:cdanders@tconl.com]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor. My wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I thought maybe we had a solution.

However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but it backfired several times.

I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.

Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my 91 wagon?

Thanks again to all.
Carl

Michael Ekstrom wrote:

Hi guys,

just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the same problem
with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after running it
on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as K/N) for 1
1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here, and I first
tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed me abt
$100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by loaning
another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs abt $400
here
in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna change it before
beeing sure that its broken...

Good Luck !

Michael

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
wrote:
> Your theory is correct Josh,
>
> Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes are
> notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to increased
speed
> of intake and intake surges.
>
> Problem can be overcome by...
>
> - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a finer
pitch
> weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor... without
shielding
> it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true intake charge.
>
> - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic alcohol, to
> remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire. ie. the same
> reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much fruit loaf,
> splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form hot-spots.
>
> John Gillon
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo" <jcc189@p...>
> wrote:
> > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving around and
the
> car would
> > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher revs. If I
put
> it in
> > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring it back.
The
> car
> > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I couldn't
> bring it
> > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss out it to
keep
> it
> > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die. Let it sit
for
> a minute
> > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I had been
having
> this
> > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow sensor.
> Replaced it and
> > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not something you
> really wanna
> > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the whole thing
is
> that it's
> > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> >
> > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some feedback to
> see. I'm
> > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters and
> such...screws up
> > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to be a
> coincidence. I
> > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years before I
> started gettin
> > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> >
> > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end with
> everything else.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > josh
> >
> > ************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > jcc189@p... < mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > ************************
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdanders@t... [ mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
accelerating.
> >
> > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> >
> > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer, and or die
> > when
> > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop off fast if
> > you
> > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it will last
for
> 20
> > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes will back
fire
> > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town speed it will
die
> > and after several minutes of setting it will start and operate
fine
> > again.
> >
> > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I have changed
the
> > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium gas "90
octane
> or
> > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past. Our generic
> > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have changed the O2
> > sensor
> > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> >
> > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I change
> > plug
> > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested in any other
> > suggestions or similar experiences.
> >
> > Thanks to all,
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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Michael Ekstrom · Post by **Michael Ekstrom** » Sat Oct 07, 2000 8:12 pm

This is how the MAF problem happened to me:

for abt a week or two, the car run otherwise smoothly, but every now
and then, especially when the engine was cold, it refused to
accelerate, but when I gave it a couple of seconds, it worked ok. I
thought that it was just something with the engine beeing too cold,
but on the other hand, it never had done that before...
After a week or so, I was driving a steady speed of abt 100km/h or
so, and suddenly I saw the "check engine" warning light light up. I
stopped immediately, and as I stopped, the engine died. I tried to
reset the values by taking the battery cable off, but it didn´t
help
(well the "check engine" light never light up again), the engine
wasn´t running smoothly. I then tried to unplug the MAF, and then
I
noticed a difference, The engine was now running smoothly on low
revs, but when stepping on it, it refused to rev. When the cable was
attached, it was abt the opposite, on low revs the engine just
refused to co-operate, but when it finally gained revs, it seemed to
work, at least somehow. I therefore assumed that the MAF is the
broken part, and had it changed, and as said earlier, it worked. When
thinking back, the MAF probably caused a lot of problems during the
last year, cause I had my car examined three times when looking for
the reason why it sometimes refused to gain revs and build up boost.
They never found out what caused the problem, but after changing the
MAF I´ve never had that problem again...

I was told that it is possible to determine whether the MAF is
working ok or not by a simple computer check... I never did it since
the problem was solved, but I strongly recommend that you try to have
your car examined "by someone" before buying a new MAF, you
shouldn´t
buy one if you aren´t 100% sure that the old one is broken...

BRGDS Michael

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
wrote:
> Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the error
codes
> that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now and
they
> are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery cable
off
> overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only
assuming
> they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.
>
> The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and had us
at the
> side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be revived by
> simply floating the throttle and being patient.
>
> I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had vapor
> locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen only
after
> driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing down
for
> slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is more
> frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few miles of
normal
> driving.
>
> My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93 and
> replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.
>
> Feed back always welcome,
>
> Carl
>
> Josh Colombo wrote:
>
> > Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just loose
all
> > power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev it,
but
> > if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty close to
your
> > symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but
> > definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on my
page
> > under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how.
> > www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know what you
> > findJosh ************************Josh
> > Colombojcc189@p...************************
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> > UPDATE
> >
> > Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor. My
> > wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I
> > thought maybe we had a solution.
> >
> > However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would
> > test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut
> > out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but it
> > backfired several times.
> >
> > I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be
> > able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.
> >
> > Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know
> > the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my
> > 91 wagon?
> >
> > Thanks again to all.
> > Carl
> >
> > Michael Ekstrom wrote:
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the same
> > > problem
> > > with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after
> > > running it
> > > on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as
> > > K/N) for 1
> > > 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here,
> > > and I first
> > > tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed
> > > me abt
> > > $100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by
> > > loaning
> > > another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs abt
> > > $400
> > > here
> > > in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna change
> > > it before
> > > beeing sure that its broken...
> > >
> > > Good Luck !
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon"
> > > <grilla@i...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Your theory is correct Josh,
> > > >
> > > > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes
> > > are
> > > > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to
> > > increased
> > > speed
> > > > of intake and intake surges.
> > > >
> > > > Problem can be overcome by...
> > > >
> > > > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a
> > > finer
> > > pitch
> > > > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor...
> > > without
> > > shielding
> > > > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true
> > > intake charge.
> > > >
> > > > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic
> > > alcohol, to
> > > > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire.
> > > ie. the same
> > > > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much
> > > fruit loaf,
> > > > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form
> > > hot-spots.
> > > >
> > > > John Gillon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
> > > <jcc189@p...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving
> > > around and
> > > the
> > > > car would
> > > > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher
> > > revs. If I
> > > put
> > > > it in
> > > > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring
> > > it back.
> > > The
> > > > car
> > > > > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I
> > > couldn't
> > > > bring it
> > > > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss
> > > out it to
> > > keep
> > > > it
> > > > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die.
> > > Let it sit
> > > for
> > > > a minute
> > > > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I
> > > had been
> > > having
> > > > this
> > > > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow
> > > sensor.
> > > > Replaced it and
> > > > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not
> > > something you
> > > > really wanna
> > > > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the
> > > whole thing
> > > is
> > > > that it's
> > > > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some
> > > feedback to
> > > > see. I'm
> > > > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters
> > > and
> > > > such...screws up
> > > > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to
> > > be a
> > > > coincidence. I
> > > > > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years
> > > before I
> > > > started gettin
> > > > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > > > >
> > > > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end
> > > with
> > > > everything else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck
> > > > >
> > > > > josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > jcc189@p... <mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > > > ************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: cdanders@t... [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> > > "Turbo"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
> > >
> > > accelerating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer,
> > > and or die
> > > > > when
> > > > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop
> > > off fast if
> > > > > you
> > > > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it
> > > will last
> > > for
> > > > 20
> > > > > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes
> > > will back
> > > fire
> > > > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town
> > > speed it will
> > > die
> > > > > and after several minutes of setting it will start and
> > > operate
> > > fine
> > > > > again.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I
> > > have changed
> > > the
> > > > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium
> > > gas "90
> > > octane
> > > > or
> > > > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past.
> > > Our generic
> > > > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have
> > > changed the O2
> > > > > sensor
> > > > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I
> > > change
> > > > > plug
> > > > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested
> > > in any other
> > > > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to all,
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Alan Croxford · Post by **Alan Croxford** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 12:11 am

Here is an idea! Matt just asked if anyone had tried to use the
black
MAF devices from the N\A Legacys. I did try it a long time ago and
they do not work but I did manage to go in and with the help of my
brother who is a eng. for a flow meter co. modify the circuit in the
black MAF so it worked and I thought it worked as well if not better
than the aluminum one that is so expensive. So what I want to do is
dig this out tommorow get one together try it on my car and then see
if Carl would like to try it and get his opinion. One of the reasons
I never completed this project was at the time there wasn't a real
demand and I was concerned about the sensor elements in the N\A unit
holding up when subjected to the air flow of a turbo. Now I have seen
this same unit on turbo engines of 4 or 500hp and haven't heard of a
failure. I don't know what they get for the black unit but I have to
go to my favorite used Subie parts place tomorow and will check.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Michael Ekstrom"
<michael.ekstrom@f...> wrote:
> This is how the MAF problem happened to me:
>
> for abt a week or two, the car run otherwise smoothly, but every
now
> and then, especially when the engine was cold, it refused to
> accelerate, but when I gave it a couple of seconds, it worked ok. I
> thought that it was just something with the engine beeing too cold,
> but on the other hand, it never had done that before...
> After a week or so, I was driving a steady speed of abt 100km/h or
> so, and suddenly I saw the "check engine" warning light light up. I
> stopped immediately, and as I stopped, the engine died. I tried to
> reset the values by taking the battery cable off, but it didn´t
> help
> (well the "check engine" light never light up again), the engine
> wasn´t running smoothly. I then tried to unplug the MAF, and then
> I
> noticed a difference, The engine was now running smoothly on low
> revs, but when stepping on it, it refused to rev. When the cable
was
> attached, it was abt the opposite, on low revs the engine just
> refused to co-operate, but when it finally gained revs, it seemed
to
> work, at least somehow. I therefore assumed that the MAF is the
> broken part, and had it changed, and as said earlier, it worked.
When
> thinking back, the MAF probably caused a lot of problems during the
> last year, cause I had my car examined three times when looking for
> the reason why it sometimes refused to gain revs and build up
boost.
> They never found out what caused the problem, but after changing
the
> MAF I´ve never had that problem again...
>
> I was told that it is possible to determine whether the MAF is
> working ok or not by a simple computer check... I never did it
since
> the problem was solved, but I strongly recommend that you try to
have
> your car examined "by someone" before buying a new MAF, you
> shouldn´t
> buy one if you aren´t 100% sure that the old one is broken...
>
> BRGDS Michael
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the error
> codes
> > that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now
and
> they
> > are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery
cable
> off
> > overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only
> assuming
> > they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.
> >
> > The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and had us
> at the
> > side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be revived
by
> > simply floating the throttle and being patient.
> >
> > I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had
vapor
> > locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen
only
> after
> > driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing down
> for
> > slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is
more
> > frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few miles of
> normal
> > driving.
> >
> > My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93 and
> > replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.
> >
> > Feed back always welcome,
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > Josh Colombo wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just
loose
> all
> > > power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev
it,
> but
> > > if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty close
to
> your
> > > symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but
> > > definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on
my
> page
> > > under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how.
> > > www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know what
you
> > > findJosh ************************Josh
> > > Colombojcc189@p...************************
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> > > UPDATE
> > >
> > > Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor.
My
> > > wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I
> > > thought maybe we had a solution.
> > >
> > > However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would
> > > test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut
> > > out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but
it
> > > backfired several times.
> > >
> > > I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be
> > > able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.
> > >
> > > Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know
> > > the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my
> > > 91 wagon?
> > >
> > > Thanks again to all.
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > Michael Ekstrom wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > >
> > > > just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the
same
> > > > problem
> > > > with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after
> > > > running it
> > > > on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as
> > > > K/N) for 1
> > > > 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here,
> > > > and I first
> > > > tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed
> > > > me abt
> > > > $100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by
> > > > loaning
> > > > another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs
abt
> > > > $400
> > > > here
> > > > in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna
change
> > > > it before
> > > > beeing sure that its broken...
> > > >
> > > > Good Luck !
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon"
> > > > <grilla@i...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Your theory is correct Josh,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes
> > > > are
> > > > > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to
> > > > increased
> > > > speed
> > > > > of intake and intake surges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem can be overcome by...
> > > > >
> > > > > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a
> > > > finer
> > > > pitch
> > > > > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor...
> > > > without
> > > > shielding
> > > > > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true
> > > > intake charge.
> > > > >
> > > > > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic
> > > > alcohol, to
> > > > > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire.
> > > > ie. the same
> > > > > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much
> > > > fruit loaf,
> > > > > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form
> > > > hot-spots.
> > > > >
> > > > > John Gillon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
> > > > <jcc189@p...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving
> > > > around and
> > > > the
> > > > > car would
> > > > > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher
> > > > revs. If I
> > > > put
> > > > > it in
> > > > > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring
> > > > it back.
> > > > The
> > > > > car
> > > > > > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I
> > > > couldn't
> > > > > bring it
> > > > > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss
> > > > out it to
> > > > keep
> > > > > it
> > > > > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die.
> > > > Let it sit
> > > > for
> > > > > a minute
> > > > > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I
> > > > had been
> > > > having
> > > > > this
> > > > > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow
> > > > sensor.
> > > > > Replaced it and
> > > > > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not
> > > > something you
> > > > > really wanna
> > > > > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the
> > > > whole thing
> > > > is
> > > > > that it's
> > > > > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some
> > > > feedback to
> > > > > see. I'm
> > > > > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters
> > > > and
> > > > > such...screws up
> > > > > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to
> > > > be a
> > > > > coincidence. I
> > > > > > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years
> > > > before I
> > > > > started gettin
> > > > > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end
> > > > with
> > > > > everything else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > jcc189@p... <mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: cdanders@t... [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> > > > "Turbo"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
> > > >
> > > > accelerating.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer,
> > > > and or die
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop
> > > > off fast if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it
> > > > will last
> > > > for
> > > > > 20
> > > > > > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes
> > > > will back
> > > > fire
> > > > > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town
> > > > speed it will
> > > > die
> > > > > > and after several minutes of setting it will start and
> > > > operate
> > > > fine
> > > > > > again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I
> > > > have changed
> > > > the
> > > > > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium
> > > > gas "90
> > > > octane
> > > > > or
> > > > > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past.
> > > > Our generic
> > > > > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have
> > > > changed the O2
> > > > > > sensor
> > > > > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I
> > > > change
> > > > > > plug
> > > > > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested
> > > > in any other
> > > > > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to all,
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 12:30 am

Well I'm not sure....but my 90 N/A legacy uses the black plastic style MAF.
Are the aluminum ones mainly used on the turbos? The black one is $300 NEW.
I just replaced it....

Josh

************************
Josh Colombo
jcc189@psu.edu <mailto:jcc189@psu.edu>
************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Croxford [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 12:11 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

Here is an idea! Matt just asked if anyone had tried to use the
black
MAF devices from the N\A Legacys. I did try it a long time ago and
they do not work but I did manage to go in and with the help of my
brother who is a eng. for a flow meter co. modify the circuit in the
black MAF so it worked and I thought it worked as well if not better
than the aluminum one that is so expensive. So what I want to do is
dig this out tommorow get one together try it on my car and then see
if Carl would like to try it and get his opinion. One of the reasons
I never completed this project was at the time there wasn't a real
demand and I was concerned about the sensor elements in the N\A unit
holding up when subjected to the air flow of a turbo. Now I have seen
this same unit on turbo engines of 4 or 500hp and haven't heard of a
failure. I don't know what they get for the black unit but I have to
go to my favorite used Subie parts place tomorow and will check.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Michael Ekstrom"
<michael.ekstrom@f...> wrote:
> This is how the MAF problem happened to me:
>
> for abt a week or two, the car run otherwise smoothly, but every
now
> and then, especially when the engine was cold, it refused to
> accelerate, but when I gave it a couple of seconds, it worked ok. I
> thought that it was just something with the engine beeing too cold,
> but on the other hand, it never had done that before...
> After a week or so, I was driving a steady speed of abt 100km/h or
> so, and suddenly I saw the "check engine" warning light light up. I
> stopped immediately, and as I stopped, the engine died. I tried to
> reset the values by taking the battery cable off, but it didn´t
> help
> (well the "check engine" light never light up again), the engine
> wasn´t running smoothly. I then tried to unplug the MAF, and then
> I
> noticed a difference, The engine was now running smoothly on low
> revs, but when stepping on it, it refused to rev. When the cable
was
> attached, it was abt the opposite, on low revs the engine just
> refused to co-operate, but when it finally gained revs, it seemed
to
> work, at least somehow. I therefore assumed that the MAF is the
> broken part, and had it changed, and as said earlier, it worked.
When
> thinking back, the MAF probably caused a lot of problems during the
> last year, cause I had my car examined three times when looking for
> the reason why it sometimes refused to gain revs and build up
boost.
> They never found out what caused the problem, but after changing
the
> MAF I´ve never had that problem again...
>
> I was told that it is possible to determine whether the MAF is
> working ok or not by a simple computer check... I never did it
since
> the problem was solved, but I strongly recommend that you try to
have
> your car examined "by someone" before buying a new MAF, you
> shouldn´t
> buy one if you aren´t 100% sure that the old one is broken...
>
> BRGDS Michael
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the error
> codes
> > that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now
and
> they
> > are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery
cable
> off
> > overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only
> assuming
> > they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.
> >
> > The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and had us
> at the
> > side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be revived
by
> > simply floating the throttle and being patient.
> >
> > I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had
vapor
> > locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen
only
> after
> > driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing down
> for
> > slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is
more
> > frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few miles of
> normal
> > driving.
> >
> > My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93 and
> > replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.
> >
> > Feed back always welcome,
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > Josh Colombo wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just
loose
> all
> > > power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev
it,
> but
> > > if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty close
to
> your
> > > symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but
> > > definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on
my
> page
> > > under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how.
> > > www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know what
you
> > > findJosh ************************Josh
> > > Colombojcc189@p...************************
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> > > UPDATE
> > >
> > > Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor.
My
> > > wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I
> > > thought maybe we had a solution.
> > >
> > > However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would
> > > test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut
> > > out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but
it
> > > backfired several times.
> > >
> > > I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be
> > > able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.
> > >
> > > Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know
> > > the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my
> > > 91 wagon?
> > >
> > > Thanks again to all.
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > Michael Ekstrom wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > >
> > > > just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the
same
> > > > problem
> > > > with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after
> > > > running it
> > > > on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as
> > > > K/N) for 1
> > > > 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here,
> > > > and I first
> > > > tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed
> > > > me abt
> > > > $100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by
> > > > loaning
> > > > another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs
abt
> > > > $400
> > > > here
> > > > in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna
change
> > > > it before
> > > > beeing sure that its broken...
> > > >
> > > > Good Luck !
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon"
> > > > <grilla@i...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Your theory is correct Josh,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes
> > > > are
> > > > > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to
> > > > increased
> > > > speed
> > > > > of intake and intake surges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem can be overcome by...
> > > > >
> > > > > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a
> > > > finer
> > > > pitch
> > > > > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor...
> > > > without
> > > > shielding
> > > > > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true
> > > > intake charge.
> > > > >
> > > > > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic
> > > > alcohol, to
> > > > > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire.
> > > > ie. the same
> > > > > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much
> > > > fruit loaf,
> > > > > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form
> > > > hot-spots.
> > > > >
> > > > > John Gillon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
> > > > <jcc189@p...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving
> > > > around and
> > > > the
> > > > > car would
> > > > > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher
> > > > revs. If I
> > > > put
> > > > > it in
> > > > > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring
> > > > it back.
> > > > The
> > > > > car
> > > > > > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I
> > > > couldn't
> > > > > bring it
> > > > > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss
> > > > out it to
> > > > keep
> > > > > it
> > > > > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die.
> > > > Let it sit
> > > > for
> > > > > a minute
> > > > > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I
> > > > had been
> > > > having
> > > > > this
> > > > > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow
> > > > sensor.
> > > > > Replaced it and
> > > > > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not
> > > > something you
> > > > > really wanna
> > > > > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the
> > > > whole thing
> > > > is
> > > > > that it's
> > > > > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some
> > > > feedback to
> > > > > see. I'm
> > > > > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters
> > > > and
> > > > > such...screws up
> > > > > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to
> > > > be a
> > > > > coincidence. I
> > > > > > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years
> > > > before I
> > > > > started gettin
> > > > > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end
> > > > with
> > > > > everything else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > jcc189@p... <mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: cdanders@t... [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> > > > "Turbo"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
> > > >
> > > > accelerating.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer,
> > > > and or die
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop
> > > > off fast if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it
> > > > will last
> > > > for
> > > > > 20
> > > > > > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes
> > > > will back
> > > > fire
> > > > > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town
> > > > speed it will
> > > > die
> > > > > > and after several minutes of setting it will start and
> > > > operate
> > > > fine
> > > > > > again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I
> > > > have changed
> > > > the
> > > > > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium
> > > > gas "90
> > > > octane
> > > > > or
> > > > > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past.
> > > > Our generic
> > > > > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have
> > > > changed the O2
> > > > > > sensor
> > > > > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I
> > > > change
> > > > > > plug
> > > > > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested
> > > > in any other
> > > > > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to all,
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >

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Carl Andersen · Post by **Carl Andersen** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:16 am

The MAF on my 93 is the black plastic one and does not appear to be physically interchangeable with my 91 non-turbo.

Alan Croxford wrote:

Here is an idea! Matt just asked if anyone had tried to use the
black
MAF devices from the N\A Legacys. I did try it a long time ago and
they do not work but I did manage to go in and with the help of my
brother who is a eng. for a flow meter co. modify the circuit in the
black MAF so it worked and I thought it worked as well if not better
than the aluminum one that is so expensive. So what I want to do is
dig this out tommorow get one together try it on my car and then see
if Carl would like to try it and get his opinion. One of the reasons
I never completed this project was at the time there wasn't a real
demand and I was concerned about the sensor elements in the N\A unit
holding up when subjected to the air flow of a turbo. Now I have seen
this same unit on turbo engines of 4 or 500hp and haven't heard of a
failure. I don't know what they get for the black unit but I have to
go to my favorite used Subie parts place tomorow and will check.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Michael Ekstrom"
<michael.ekstrom@f...> wrote:
> This is how the MAF problem happened to me:
>
> for abt a week or two, the car run otherwise smoothly, but every
now
> and then, especially when the engine was cold, it refused to
> accelerate, but when I gave it a couple of seconds, it worked ok. I
> thought that it was just something with the engine beeing too cold,
> but on the other hand, it never had done that before...
> After a week or so, I was driving a steady speed of abt 100km/h or
> so, and suddenly I saw the "check engine" warning light light up. I
> stopped immediately, and as I stopped, the engine died. I tried to
> reset the values by taking the battery cable off, but it didn´t
> help
> (well the "check engine" light never light up again), the engine
> wasn´t running smoothly. I then tried to unplug the MAF, and then
> I
> noticed a difference, The engine was now running smoothly on low
> revs, but when stepping on it, it refused to rev. When the cable
was
> attached, it was abt the opposite, on low revs the engine just
> refused to co-operate, but when it finally gained revs, it seemed
to
> work, at least somehow. I therefore assumed that the MAF is the
> broken part, and had it changed, and as said earlier, it worked.
When
> thinking back, the MAF probably caused a lot of problems during the
> last year, cause I had my car examined three times when looking for
> the reason why it sometimes refused to gain revs and build up
boost.
> They never found out what caused the problem, but after changing
the
> MAF I´ve never had that problem again...
>
> I was told that it is possible to determine whether the MAF is
> working ok or not by a simple computer check... I never did it
since
> the problem was solved, but I strongly recommend that you try to
have
> your car examined "by someone" before buying a new MAF, you
> shouldn´t
> buy one if you aren´t 100% sure that the old one is broken...
>
> BRGDS Michael
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the error
> codes
> > that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now
and
> they
> > are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery
cable
> off
> > overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only
> assuming
> > they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.
> >
> > The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and had us
> at the
> > side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be revived
by
> > simply floating the throttle and being patient.
> >
> > I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had
vapor
> > locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen
only
> after
> > driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing down
> for
> > slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is
more
> > frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few miles of
> normal
> > driving.
> >
> > My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93 and
> > replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.
> >
> > Feed back always welcome,
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > Josh Colombo wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just
loose
> all
> > > power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you rev
it,
> but
> > > if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty close
to
> your
> > > symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing it, but
> > > definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions on
my
> page
> > > under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know how.
> > > www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know what
you
> > > findJosh ************************Josh
> > > Colombojcc189@p...************************
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl Andersen [ mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
> > > UPDATE
> > >
> > > Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle sensor.
My
> > > wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I
> > > thought maybe we had a solution.
> > >
> > > However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she would
> > > test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to cut
> > > out again. She was able to revive it before stopping but
it
> > > backfired several times.
> > >
> > > I will check the ECU for codes later today and I should be
> > > able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.
> > >
> > > Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I know
> > > the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil with my
> > > 91 wagon?
> > >
> > > Thanks again to all.
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > Michael Ekstrom wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > >
> > > > just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had the
same
> > > > problem
> > > > with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine) after
> > > > running it
> > > > on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the same as
> > > > K/N) for 1
> > > > 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described here,
> > > > and I first
> > > > tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which costed
> > > > me abt
> > > > $100), but then the car left me on the road and I tried by
> > > > loaning
> > > > another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF costs
abt
> > > > $400
> > > > here
> > > > in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna
change
> > > > it before
> > > > beeing sure that its broken...
> > > >
> > > > Good Luck !
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon"
> > > > <grilla@i...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Your theory is correct Josh,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow intakes
> > > > are
> > > > > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due to
> > > > increased
> > > > speed
> > > > > of intake and intake surges.
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem can be overcome by...
> > > > >
> > > > > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy, to a
> > > > finer
> > > > pitch
> > > > > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor...
> > > > without
> > > > shielding
> > > > > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true
> > > > intake charge.
> > > > >
> > > > > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic
> > > > alcohol, to
> > > > > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the wire.
> > > > ie. the same
> > > > > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to much
> > > > fruit loaf,
> > > > > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form
> > > > hot-spots.
> > > > >
> > > > > John Gillon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
> > > > <jcc189@p...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be driving
> > > > around and
> > > > the
> > > > > car would
> > > > > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at higher
> > > > revs. If I
> > > > put
> > > > > it in
> > > > > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually bring
> > > > it back.
> > > > The
> > > > > car
> > > > > > finally did sorta what you described. It just died, I
> > > > couldn't
> > > > > bring it
> > > > > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the piss
> > > > out it to
> > > > keep
> > > > > it
> > > > > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die.
> > > > Let it sit
> > > > for
> > > > > a minute
> > > > > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code. I
> > > > had been
> > > > having
> > > > > this
> > > > > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow
> > > > sensor.
> > > > > Replaced it and
> > > > > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not
> > > > something you
> > > > > really wanna
> > > > > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of the
> > > > whole thing
> > > > is
> > > > > that it's
> > > > > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love some
> > > > feedback to
> > > > > see. I'm
> > > > > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone filters
> > > > and
> > > > > such...screws up
> > > > > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened to
> > > > be a
> > > > > coincidence. I
> > > > > > had been running my intake filter for about 2 years
> > > > before I
> > > > > started gettin
> > > > > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead end
> > > > with
> > > > > everything else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > jcc189@p... < mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > > > > ************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: cdanders@t... [ mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> > > > "Turbo"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem when
> > > >
> > > > accelerating.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter, stammer,
> > > > and or die
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM drop
> > > > off fast if
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle it
> > > > will last
> > > > for
> > > > > 20
> > > > > > seconds or so and then come back to life. Sometimes
> > > > will back
> > > > fire
> > > > > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town
> > > > speed it will
> > > > die
> > > > > > and after several minutes of setting it will start and
> > > > operate
> > > > fine
> > > > > > again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel. I
> > > > have changed
> > > > the
> > > > > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight premium
> > > > gas "90
> > > > octane
> > > > > or
> > > > > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the past.
> > > > Our generic
> > > > > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have
> > > > changed the O2
> > > > > > sensor
> > > > > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that I
> > > > change
> > > > > > plug
> > > > > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am interested
> > > > in any other
> > > > > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to all,
> > > > > > Carl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >

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Alan Croxford · Post by **Alan Croxford** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:29 am

I will be going to my used parts place sometime today and they also
have a service dept. and maybe I can find out if there were any
different MAFs made than the alum. and the black I think almost all
Legacy turbos were very close to being the same except some of the
'90
models that had a special ECU used a idle air valve with two
terminals
and had some other changes.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
wrote:
> The MAF on my 93 is the black plastic one and does not appear to be
> physically interchangeable with my 91 non-turbo.
>
> Alan Croxford wrote:
>
> > Here is an idea! Matt just asked if anyone had tried to use the
> > black
> > MAF devices from the N\A Legacys. I did try it a long time ago and
> > they do not work but I did manage to go in and with the help of my
> > brother who is a eng. for a flow meter co. modify the circuit in
the
> > black MAF so it worked and I thought it worked as well if not
better
> > than the aluminum one that is so expensive. So what I want to do
is
> > dig this out tommorow get one together try it on my car and then
see
> > if Carl would like to try it and get his opinion. One of the
reasons
> > I never completed this project was at the time there wasn't a real
> > demand and I was concerned about the sensor elements in the N\A
unit
> > holding up when subjected to the air flow of a turbo. Now I have
seen
> > this same unit on turbo engines of 4 or 500hp and haven't heard
of
a
> > failure. I don't know what they get for the black unit but I have
to
> > go to my favorite used Subie parts place tomorow and will check.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Michael Ekstrom"
> > <michael.ekstrom@f...> wrote:
> > > This is how the MAF problem happened to me:
> > >
> > > for abt a week or two, the car run otherwise smoothly, but every
> > now
> > > and then, especially when the engine was cold, it refused to
> > > accelerate, but when I gave it a couple of seconds, it worked
ok. I
> > > thought that it was just something with the engine beeing too
cold,
> > > but on the other hand, it never had done that before...
> > > After a week or so, I was driving a steady speed of abt 100km/h
or
> > > so, and suddenly I saw the "check engine" warning light light
up. I
> > > stopped immediately, and as I stopped, the engine died. I tried
to
> > > reset the values by taking the battery cable off, but it
didn´t
> > > help
> > > (well the "check engine" light never light up again), the engine
> > > wasn´t running smoothly. I then tried to unplug the MAF, and
then
> > > I
> > > noticed a difference, The engine was now running smoothly on low
> > > revs, but when stepping on it, it refused to rev. When the cable
> > was
> > > attached, it was abt the opposite, on low revs the engine just
> > > refused to co-operate, but when it finally gained revs, it
seemed
> > to
> > > work, at least somehow. I therefore assumed that the MAF is the
> > > broken part, and had it changed, and as said earlier, it worked.
> > When
> > > thinking back, the MAF probably caused a lot of problems during
the
> > > last year, cause I had my car examined three times when looking
for
> > > the reason why it sometimes refused to gain revs and build up
> > boost.
> > > They never found out what caused the problem, but after changing
> > the
> > > MAF I´ve never had that problem again...
> > >
> > > I was told that it is possible to determine whether the MAF is
> > > working ok or not by a simple computer check... I never did it
> > since
> > > the problem was solved, but I strongly recommend that you try to
> > have
> > > your car examined "by someone" before buying a new MAF, you
> > > shouldn´t
> > > buy one if you aren´t 100% sure that the old one is broken...
> > >
> > > BRGDS Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, Carl Andersen
<cdanders@t...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the response Josh, I used your page to get the
error
> > > codes
> > > > that indicated the cam sensor and I just checked the codes now
> > and
> > > they
> > > > are the same as before. I cleared them by taking the battery
> > cable
> > > off
> > > > overnight. I didn't check them again until today and am only
> > > assuming
> > > > they were cleared. The errors are 13 and 35.
> > > >
> > > > The problem has never occured at low RPM. It has died and
had
us
> > > at the
> > > > side of the road twice. The rest of the time it will be
revived
> > by
> > > > simply floating the throttle and being patient.
> > > >
> > > > I too think it sounds like fuel. Originally I thought we had
> > vapor
> > > > locks from boiling the fuel in the filter. It used to happen
> > only
> > > after
> > > > driving for some distance at highway speed and after slowing
down
> > > for
> > > > slow traffic or a town and then accelerating again. Now it is
> > more
> > > > frequent (once per week) and can happen after only a few
miles
of
> > > normal
> > > > driving.
> > > >
> > > > My plan at this point is to move the coil from my 91 to my 93
and
> > > > replace the plug wires. Next I suppose will be the MAF.
> > > >
> > > > Feed back always welcome,
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > Josh Colombo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Carl, Is it acting up very sporadically, does it just
> > loose
> > > all
> > > > > power, and sometimes you can keep it from stalling if you
rev
> > it,
> > > but
> > > > > if it's at a low idle, it just dies?If these are pretty
close
> > to
> > > your
> > > > > symptoms, I would be 99% sure the MAF is what is causing
it,
but
> >
> > > > > definitely check the ECU for codes. There is instructions
on
> > my
> > > page
> > > > > under notes & tips how to get the codes if you don't know
how.
> > > > > www.personal.psu.edu/jcc189/subaru/subaru.htmlLet us know
what
> > you
> > > > > findJosh ************************Josh
> > > > > Colombojcc189@p...************************
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 105 AM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon
"Turbo"
> >
> > > > > UPDATE
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I have replaced the plugs and the Cam angle
sensor.
> > My
> > > > > wife thinks the plugs have made it run smoother and I
> > > > > thought maybe we had a solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, yesterday it did it again. She thought she
would
> >
> > > > > test it and as she accelerated to 80mph it started to
cut
> > > > > out again. She was able to revive it before stopping
but
> > it
> > > > > backfired several times.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will check the ECU for codes later today and I
should
be
> > > > > able to pick up the plug wires this afternoon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Next I plan to replace either the coil or Mass air. I
know
> >
> > > > > the Mass air is expensive so could I trade the coil
with my
> >
> > > > > 91 wagon?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again to all.
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Ekstrom wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just a short comment on the MAF sensor. I´ve had
the
> > same
> > > > > > problem
> > > > > > with my car as well (1992 Legacy Turbo, EJ20 engine)
after
> >
> > > > > > running it
> > > > > > on a performance intake filter (JR filter, abt the
same as
> >
> > > > > > K/N) for 1
> > > > > > 1/2 years. The symptoms where the same as described
here,
> > > > > > and I first
> > > > > > tried to change the air chamber bypass valve (which
costed
> >
> > > > > > me abt
> > > > > > $100), but then the car left me on the road and I
tried by
> >
> > > > > > loaning
> > > > > > another MAF from a friend, and voilá... The MAF
costs
> > abt
> > > > > > $400
> > > > > > here
> > > > > > in Finland, so just as Josh said, you don´t wanna
> > change
> > > > > > it before
> > > > > > beeing sure that its broken...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good Luck !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon"
> > > > > > <grilla@i...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Your theory is correct Josh,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sub MAF sensors are extremely fragile. Free-flow
intakes
> >
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > notorious for breaking the MAF sensor hotwire, due
to
> > > > > > increased
> > > > > > speed
> > > > > > > of intake and intake surges.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Problem can be overcome by...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - swapping the metal gause / grill / shield thingy,
to a
> >
> > > > > > finer
> > > > > > pitch
> > > > > > > weave, to add more protection to the MAF sensor...
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > shielding
> > > > > > > it so much that it no longer is exposed to the true
> > > > > > intake charge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - clean the MAF sensor hotwire regulary with organic
> > > > > > alcohol, to
> > > > > > > remove intake deposits from hot-spotting on the
wire.
> > > > > > ie. the same
> > > > > > > reason that toaster elements break... cooking to
much
> > > > > > fruit loaf,
> > > > > > > splatters raisins explosions on the wire to form
> > > > > > hot-spots.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Gillon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Josh Colombo"
> > > > > > <jcc189@p...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I had a problem sorta like this....You'd be
driving
> > > > > > around and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > car would
> > > > > > > > just die at a low idle or loose all power at
higher
> > > > > > revs. If I
> > > > > > put
> > > > > > > it in
> > > > > > > > neutral and revved the engine...I could usually
bring
> > > > > > it back.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > car
> > > > > > > > finally did sorta what you described. It just
died, I
> >
> > > > > > couldn't
> > > > > > > bring it
> > > > > > > > back, when I started it again...had to rev the
piss
> > > > > > out it to
> > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > running, but as soon as it was in gear..would die.
> > > > > > Let it sit
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > a minute
> > > > > > > > or so, and started back up. BUT it left a code.
I
> > > > > > had been
> > > > > > having
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > problem for over a year. It was the mass air flow
> > > > > > sensor.
> > > > > > > Replaced it and
> > > > > > > > haven't had any problems, BUT it's $300, so not
> > > > > > something you
> > > > > > > really wanna
> > > > > > > > just replace for the hell of it. The kicker of
the
> > > > > > whole thing
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > that it's
> > > > > > > > SOOO intermittant..it's hard to trace.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a hypothesis on the cause....and I'd love
some
> > > > > > feedback to
> > > > > > > see. I'm
> > > > > > > > wondering if adding the intakes, like the cone
filters
> >
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > such...screws up
> > > > > > > > the mass air flow sensor...or if it just happened
to
> > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > coincidence. I
> > > > > > > > had been running my intake filter for about 2
years
> > > > > > before I
> > > > > > > started gettin
> > > > > > > > any problems with the MAF...so I don't know
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This might be worth a shot if you run into a dead
end
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > everything else.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > josh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ************************
> > > > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > > > jcc189@p... <mailto:jcc189@p...>
> > > > > > > > ************************
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: cdanders@t... [mailto:cdanders@t...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:19 PM
> > > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring
Wagon
> > > > > > "Turbo"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I love this car except for an intermitant problem
when
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > accelerating.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Vehicle has 90,000 miles on it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Probably twice a month this car will stutter,
stammer,
> >
> > > > > > and or die
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > accelerating. If it happens at highway speed RPM
drop
> >
> > > > > > off fast if
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > keep your foot down. If you feather the throttle
it
> > > > > > will last
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > 20
> > > > > > > > seconds or so and then come back to life.
Sometimes
> > > > > > will back
> > > > > > fire
> > > > > > > > when attempting to revive. If it happens at town
> > > > > > speed it will
> > > > > > die
> > > > > > > > and after several minutes of setting it will
start
and
> >
> > > > > > operate
> > > > > > fine
> > > > > > > > again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It seems like a vapor lock or starving for fuel.
I
> > > > > > have changed
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > fuel filter and have gone to using straight
premium
> > > > > > gas "90
> > > > > > octane
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > better", had used some alcohol enhanced in the
past.
> > > > > > Our generic
> > > > > > > > mechanic can find no computer errors but we have
> > > > > > changed the O2
> > > > > > > > sensor
> > > > > > > > and he tested the fuel pump for pressure.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Matt Scicchitano "nzwrc1@s..." has suggested that
I
> > > > > > change
> > > > > > > > plug
> > > > > > > > wires and plugs. I plan to do this but am
interested
> > > > > > in any other
> > > > > > > > suggestions or similar experiences.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks to all,
> > > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >

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Carl Andersen · Post by **Carl Andersen** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 4:27 pm

Do you have to drop the fuel tank on the 93 to change the fuel filter?

When talking with "shade tree" mechanic friends over the weekend they
were both relating stories of problems with their American made cars'
fuel pumps after they had used alcohol enhanced fuel. Their impellers
swelled up causing the fuel pump to draw more power and eventually the
elctrical contacts corroded and failed.

Any one here with similar experience on their Subaru?

The problem I have is the car seems to starve for fuel or possibly miss
when accelerating.

Carl Andersen
93 Legacy Touring Wagon
90000 miles

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Barrett, Sam · Post by **Barrett, Sam** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 4:30 pm

Umm... HELL NO!

The fuel filter is on the left side strut tower. Kinda big for a 2L engine, black and has 2 hoses comming out of it. New cost ~$25.

RECCOMENDATION: Open your gas cap and pinch the tube going to the engine before you remove it. WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@tconl.com]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:34 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

Do you have to drop the fuel tank on the 93 to change the fuel filter?

When talking with "shade tree" mechanic friends over the weekend they
were both relating stories of problems with their American made cars'
fuel pumps after they had used alcohol enhanced fuel. Their impellers
swelled up causing the fuel pump to draw more power and eventually the
elctrical contacts corroded and failed.

Any one here with similar experience on their Subaru?

The problem I have is the car seems to starve for fuel or possibly miss
when accelerating.

Carl Andersen
93 Legacy Touring Wagon
90000 miles

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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matt scicchitano · Post by **matt scicchitano** » Mon Oct 09, 2000 4:40 pm

Carl, why it is safe to assume you may have a problem with fuel, keep in
mind, the air flow meter(in conjunction with quite a few other things)
basically tells the ECU how much fuel the engine needs. So while your
problem may be related to fuel or have symptoms of a fuel related problem,
the actual problem may not be directly related to the fuel system or it's
components. It may be, but I would guess electrical/sensor problems are more
common then actual fuel problems, although it's good to keep all avenues
open.

In any case, keep trying as I'm sure you solution will be a great help to
many of us for future problems.

-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@tconl.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE

>
>The problem I have is the car seems to starve for fuel or possibly miss
>when accelerating.
>
>Carl Andersen
>93 Legacy Touring Wagon
>90000 miles

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sdurkin@tsoft.com · Post by **sdurkin@tsoft.com** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 1:05 pm

Carl,
You might also run a compresion check on each cylinder to assure you
have no leaks.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "matt scicchitano" <nzwrc1@s...>
wrote:
> Carl, why it is safe to assume you may have a problem with fuel,
keep in
> mind, the air flow meter(in conjunction with quite a few other
things)
> basically tells the ECU how much fuel the engine needs. So while
your
> problem may be related to fuel or have symptoms of a fuel related
problem,
> the actual problem may not be directly related to the fuel system
or it's
> components. It may be, but I would guess electrical/sensor problems
are more
> common then actual fuel problems, although it's good to keep all
avenues
> open.
>
> In any case, keep trying as I'm sure you solution will be a great
help to
> many of us for future problems.
>
> -Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
> Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:26 PM
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE
>
>
>
> >
> >The problem I have is the car seems to starve for fuel or possibly
miss
> >when accelerating.
> >
> >Carl Andersen
> >93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> >90000 miles

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sdurkin@tsoft.com · Post by **sdurkin@tsoft.com** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 1:06 pm

Carl,
You might also run a compresion check on each cylinder to assure you
have no leaks.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "matt scicchitano" <nzwrc1@s...>
wrote:
> Carl, why it is safe to assume you may have a problem with fuel,
keep in
> mind, the air flow meter(in conjunction with quite a few other
things)
> basically tells the ECU how much fuel the engine needs. So while
your
> problem may be related to fuel or have symptoms of a fuel related
problem,
> the actual problem may not be directly related to the fuel system
or it's
> components. It may be, but I would guess electrical/sensor problems
are more
> common then actual fuel problems, although it's good to keep all
avenues
> open.
>
> In any case, keep trying as I'm sure you solution will be a great
help to
> many of us for future problems.
>
> -Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
> Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:26 PM
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo" UPDATE
>
>
>
> >
> >The problem I have is the car seems to starve for fuel or possibly
miss
> >when accelerating.
> >
> >Carl Andersen
> >93 Legacy Touring Wagon
> >90000 miles

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Carl Andersen · Post by **Carl Andersen** » Sun Oct 22, 2000 11:09 pm

Note for all who have been following my problems with the Touring
Wagon.....

Original problem was the car operates fine and only occasionally looses
power when you attempt to accelerate. Sometimes dies but is always
started again after a few seconds.

I changed the plugs, wires, crank sensor "ECU said to", fuel filter, and
air filter all with no change in symptoms.

Last Saturday I removed the MAF, which appears to be the same as the one
on my 91 wagon, and cleaned it using shop cloth and rubbing alcohol. I
also removed the "window screen" in the throat of the MAF, soaked it in
alcohol and carefully cleaned before putting it all back together.

There have been no problems with the car all week and I have driven it
several hundred miles. It seems to be running smoothly at all RPM and
has renewed snap.

Could this have been the problem? The MAF throat had some sticky stuff
on the sides that came off easily and the screen left black residue in
the alcohol I soaked it in.

I can't believe it might have been so simple.........

Thanks for your feedback,

Carl Andersen

93 Touring Wagon
93000 miles

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:14 am

I would say it is....there has been issues with this. Similar symptoms etc.
I had them real bad for about a year...replaced MAF sensor..everyhting
worked fine...

I guess I should've tried to clean it first..but...oh well

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
jcc189@psu.edu <mailto:jcc189@psu.edu>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdanders@tconl.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 11:17 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: 93 Legacy Touring Wagon "Turbo"
UPDATE

Note for all who have been following my problems with the Touring
Wagon.....

Original problem was the car operates fine and only occasionally looses
power when you attempt to accelerate. Sometimes dies but is always
started again after a few seconds.

I changed the plugs, wires, crank sensor "ECU said to", fuel filter, and
air filter all with no change in symptoms.

Last Saturday I removed the MAF, which appears to be the same as the one
on my 91 wagon, and cleaned it using shop cloth and rubbing alcohol. I
also removed the "window screen" in the throat of the MAF, soaked it in
alcohol and carefully cleaned before putting it all back together.

There have been no problems with the car all week and I have driven it
several hundred miles. It seems to be running smoothly at all RPM and
has renewed snap.

Could this have been the problem? The MAF throat had some sticky stuff
on the sides that came off easily and the screen left black residue in
the alcohol I soaked it in.

I can't believe it might have been so simple.........

Thanks for your feedback,

Carl Andersen

93 Touring Wagon
93000 miles

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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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