hydraulic clutch questions

[BSOD2600]

Lately, I've noticed my clutch pedal has more free play in it, before it even engages / gets hard. There is a good 1-2" before it really contacts the release lever with force on the tranny. Another thing is rarely, I swear the pedal sticks and then releases. Talking with another knowledgeable board member, he was stating that I am missing a return spring on the release lever. Pics below clearly show none, or some sort of spring bracket was present:





Looking through the subaru FSMs online, I don't see any of the hydraulic clutches showing any sort of return spring -- only the mechanical one does.

Additionally, when I was taking pics of the release lever, I played around with it and shoved it into the piston on the operation cylinder. Surprisingly, it stayed depressed. I pressed on the clutch with my foot and the pedal went to the floor. Manually pulled it a little and it popped up. A few pumps and it felt like' normal' again.


1) Are the hydralic clutches suppose to have a return spring?
2) If not #1, why does the clutch pedal have more free play on it lately? Thought it was self adjusting.
3) The piston on the operation cylinder suppose to be limp as previously described when manually engaged?

[555BCTurbo]

Chris, I just realized why that motor doesn't have the bracket with the hole for the spring...

It's out of an automatic car!

[AWD_addict]

1) yes

3) no
Did you try replacing the fluid and throughly bleeding it?
any leaks?

[BSOD2600]

555BCTurbo: well sure it used to be an automatic, but I figured all the various mounting holes/parts for the 5MT came along with the swap.

AWD_addict: Fluid was freshly installed in December, when the 5MT was swapped in. The operating cylinder was re-bleed on March 12th. No leaks that I can see coming from anything in the area of the master/operation cylinders. This a sign that the operation cylinder is maybe going out?

[555BCTurbo]

555BCTurbo: well sure it used to be an automatic, but I figured all the various mounting holes/parts for the 5MT came along with the swap.

Yeah...I overlooked that small bracket...but I can conjure one up for you if you really would like me to.

I ain't perfect...

[AWD_addict]

It shouldn't be compressible. That's sort of how it operates.

I'd hook up the missing spring first, if it's still working crappy then rebuild/replace the cylinders since they're more expensive.

[BSOD2600]

Alright, called up the local subaru dealer for prices:
New slave cylinder - $58.08. Newer part # 30620 AA021.
slave repair kit - 25.92
spring - 6.43.

All would have to come from back east so ~3-4 business days. Subaruparts.com of course gets them cheaper, but I'd have to wait longer for them to arrive and then re-ship out to me. I've got the parts diagram for the slave cylinder and doesn't look like there is much to it.

Is it straight forward for rebuilding it or should I just get a new one instead? also, what fluid do I put in the reservoir?

[IronMonkeyL255]

Hmm... My hydraulic clutch didn't have a return spring, and I had the whole darn car for parts.....

[BSOD2600]

I've noticed the FSM Legacy777 posted (1992_legacy.pdf) doesn't show a spring on the release lever. While the 90-94 part catalog (1990-1994_Legacy_Parts_Catalog.pdf) does. Go figure.

[AWD_addict]

Use brake fluid, DOT 3 or 4 I think.

[Legacy777]

The FSM may not go into that detail. If the parts catalog lists it, for your application, then use it.

There are some tricks to reading the thing, so if you have questions, ask.

[BSOD2600]

Legacy777: do you have a return spring on your release lever?

I went and got a 2.5" long spring (longest / weakest one Lowes had) and attached it to the release lever and engine. Ya, the pedal dropped half way to the floor. Didn't even attempt to drive it since it just didn't feel right. Then once I took the spring off, the pedal would still only half way depress. Had to manually pull the pedal back up -- only then did it go back to its 'normal' state. Now that I think about it, it seems like the return spring should be on the opposite side of the release lever; as in from the lever to the firewall. Because with it attach to the engine, seems like it would have the potential to partially disengage the clutch.

Went ahead and ordered up a new slave cylinder from subaruparts.com, but they don't have it in stock (nor does the local subaru dealer) so its going to be ~2 weeks before I have it in my hands.

[Legacy777]

Yes I have a spring on there.

That spring is not going to disengage the clutch. You want the spring to hold the clutch fork at it's furthest position so there is no slack that needs to be brought up by the slave cylinder.

The way the clutch pedal is setup, it relies on the spring force of the pressure plate being transmitted back through the hydraulics to bring the pedal up.

Put the spring back and pull the pedal back up to the top, pump the pedal a couple times.....if need be bring it back to the top by hand.

[BSOD2600]

Yes I have a spring on there.

Alright, where does it attach to? engine or firewall side? Pics? Doesn't seem to be a logical place to attach the spring to, from my brief looking. The parts manual sort of shows towards the engine, but that doesn't make sense since it wouldn't hold the clutch fork at its furthest position.

[555BCTurbo]

As I told you Chris...the spring attaches to a little bracket on the engine...but since your car was originally an automatic, it didn't have a place to attach the spring, and when I gave your car back to you the clutch was working fine, so I didn't think that a spring was necessary at the time (because tracking that damned bracket down would be a beotch)

[BSOD2600]

Well I reattached the spring to the 'engine side' of the release lever and played around with it again. After popping it off the floor, the pedal does feel a little stiffer. Furthermore, shifting is smoother. I guess that would possibly be because the fork is no longer bouncing around a little bit?

Even though it appears to work out, I still think its backwards to have the spring on the 'engine side' of the lever and instead it should be on the 'firewall side'. Anyways, think I need to take another trip down to the subaru junk yard to pick up that bracket. I've currently got a bolt through the spring end, but since its thick, I cant get it tight; afraid it might loosen itself over time due to vibrations, regardless if the tension on the spring holds it tight.

[555BCTurbo]

The reason that it seems "backwards" is because the clutch release mechanism in a turbo EJ is backwards, per se...Because of the pull style clutch, the spring tension needs to be applied in an opposite direction to that of a normal push style setup

[Legacy777]

I attached my spring to the bracket that holds the cam, crank, & knock sensor connectors. Mine was an auto and I didn't change anything over that I can think of.

Sorry...I don't have pics though.

[BSOD2600]

Alright, I'll finally concede that you were right about the spring all along .

When there is no tension on the slave cylinder, should one be able to move that pin around in a circle motion? I don't mean simply spinning the shaft either.

[Legacy777]

The pin just sets in there, and is held in place by the rubber boot. Yes you'll be able to move the pin around.

[BSOD2600]

Alright, got the new slave cylinder installed. Stupid hands are too big to reach down into that hole.... burned myself a few times on the starter casing. Really wish I had a ratcheting box end wrench or something, since my ratchet couldn't fit. Ended up using a regular wrench which took forever to get the bolts in/out.

I noticed the new one is a lot more 'springy' and the pin actually pushes itself out, where as the old one does not.

Old:


New:



Got it installed, bled, stock spring installed (instead of ghetto one from home depot) and it feels a lot better now.

[jefferson]

My car is also missing the spring and bracket. I went to my dealer to order them and he came up with the spring right away, but didn't even attempt to look up the bracket. He just said they didn't use them on the newer cars (refering to the spring) and he wouldn't know where to look for that bracket.

Does anyone know the part number for the bracket or have a used one they want to sell? Another thought was to look it up online if there is an online parts locator. I haven't found one yet where I can go through the diagrams myself. Is there such an animal?

Jeff

[BSOD2600]

Turns out my car has the bracket... or a hole conveniently placed in the right location for the stock spring. I used the bracket which the cam/crank angle connectors are connected on. Are you missing that?

Legacy777 posted the entire parts catalog for our cars, but I don't recall ever seeing that bracket in there. Possibly is though, since its got everything else.

[greg donovan]

Turns out my car has the bracket... or a hole conveniently placed in the right location for the stock spring. I used the bracket which the cam/crank angle connectors are connected on. Are you missing that?

Legacy777 posted the entire parts catalog for our cars, but I don't recall ever seeing that bracket in there. Possibly is though, since its got everything else.

could you post a pic of this please?

[jefferson]

My car has the hole there also, which I am pretty sure is the place that the bracket bolts to. There is a bracket there for those connectors. Without the spring I'm not sure what I will be able to reach with it. I figured if I couldn't come up with the stock bracket I would have to jury rig some kind of set up.

I will look around and see if I can find that parts breakdown. I have seen one that is mainly for body shops to use when a car is crashed. Is that the one you are talking about?

Jeff