Plug and play HID conversion for early legacy(and others)

[rockethound]

I was talking to a guy with a '08 WRX today and noticed that he had ballasts on his headlights, turns out they were an aftermarket
plug and play conversion made by a company called Apexcone.

He said he'd tried a couple of others and seemed to like these the best. He said he paid like $160 for the complete kit.
So I looked them up: looks nice to say the least and you can use your existing headlights without hacking them apart.

http://www.therpmstore.com/product_info ... ucts_id=38

try to be inconspicuous, conspicuous objects draw incoming fire...and speeding tickets

[jamal]

Those are illegal and unsafe.

You should never put an hid bulb in a housing not designed for it.

[evolutionmovement]

And if you don't melt anything, you'll at least turn the headlights yellow fast and on the inside of the lens. Quality isn't cheap, people. Chinese toys are painted with lead.

[rockethound]

Legality is a variable that everyone must check out on their own to be sure, what is legal in one state/province may or may not be legal in another. It's like engine mods, there are a lot of things that are technically illegal in the State of California that are not neccesarily illegal in say the State of Washington. The important thing is that there is a luminosity limit on headlights and a lot of people throw high power PIAA bulbs in their vehicles when the package is clearly marked "Offroad Use Only" If those headlights are adjusted properly, the law enforcement authorities will very very seldom ask to see the DOT approved logo on one's headlamps. also of questionable legality are Neon lighting kits and other colored lights beyond the standard Red, Yellow and White, Blue is definitely out of the ballpark and will probably earn you a roadside discussion with the Washington State Patrol. That doesn't stop people(and alot of them) from putting these things on their vehicles. Safety is another issue which is directly user variable since you can have "legal" headlights which are out of adjustment and are blinding oncoming traffic, or you can 'Smoke your headlight and taillight lenses to make them look "cool" but what in fact you are doing is cutting their light output drastically and creating an unsafe condition since they are not smoked OEM for obvious visibility reasons of see and be seen. I could go on for a long time on this but I think I've made my point. Legality and safety are almost always user controlled, keep your headlights properly adjusted and clean and problematic issues will be minimal.

One thing I did notice is that these are single beam only not high/low beam combination so using them in a early legacy will cost you your high beams but that again ismore of an issue for people who use their high beams all of the time. I seldom ever use mine due to too much oncoming traffic.

ok, I'll get off my soapbox now

Jeff

try to be inconspicuous, conspicuous objects draw incoming fire...and speeding tickets

[jamal]

Legality is a variable that everyone must check out on their own to be sure, what is legal in one state/province may or may not be legal in another.

EVERY HID bulb mounted to a halogen base is illegal everywhere in the Europe, the US, and Canada for very good reason.

I just went over this on the USMB, here are the cliff notes:

The HID arc is in a different location and orientation than the filament in a halogen bulb. This means that the light goes a lot of places it should not go, regardless of how the headlights are aimed.

An HID arc puts out 3x more light than a halogen bulb. Not having all that light reflected/projected exactly where it should go, and nowhere else, is a very, very, very bad thing, for yourself and other cars.

Further reading:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... sions.html
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/int ... z.ztv.html

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is targeting high-intensity discharge (HID) conversion kits for enforcement actions. NHTSA has concluded that it is impossible to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with the federal lighting standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. The noncompliant kits frequently include a HID bulb, a ballast, an igniter, a relay and wiring harness adapters. The NHTSA believes this equipment presents a safety risk to the public since the kits can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists. In one investigation, the NHTSA found that an HID conversion headlamp exceeded the maximum allowable candlepower by over 800%.

Under FMVSS No. 108 Section S7.7 (replaceable light sources), each replaceable light source for headlamps must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications for the headlamp source it is intended to replace. For example, if an HID kit is marketed as replacing an H1 light source, then it must match the H1's wire coil filament size and location, the electrical connector size and location and the ballast design for use with an H1 light source (which is impossible since there is no ballast). Consequently, companies that are manufacturing HID light sources (e.g., D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, 9500, etc…) with incandescent light source bases (e.g., H1, H3, H7, H8, H9, H11, H13, HB1, HB2, HB3, HB4, HB5, etc…) should be aware that this light source design would not be one that conforms to FMVSS No. 108, and could not be imported and sold in the United States without violating Federal law. (The importer is treated as the manufacturer and subject to the same fines and penalties that apply to a domestic manufacturer.)

NHTSA has also determined that a commonly used disclaimer "for off-road use only" has no legal meaning and is not recognized by the agency as the manufacturer, importer and retailer are not in a position to control use once a product has been sold. Any equipment offered for sale which is covered by FMVSS No. 108 (headlamps, taillamps, side markers, etc.) must comply with the standard.

[rockethound]

I stand corrected, thank you for setting me straight on this.

jeff

try to be inconspicuous, conspicuous objects draw incoming fire...and speeding tickets

[SP-Boxer]

In Europe illegal? That's bullsh*t...

If they are strict somewere, it's in the Netherlands! I drive around with my set for almost a year now. Light beam is perfect after adjusting the headlights.

I searched for a H4 Bi-Xenon set, so High beam is still available. Found a nice set and even sold 20 other sets to Impreza drivers. Al very happy with it.
No light where it shouldn't be and no melting of what so ever. HID is only 35W and colder then your halogeen lightbulb!




Passengerside: Halogeen, Driverside: HID Xenon




Before adjusting the headlights, the lightbeam was too high in this picture.

[beatersubi]

You present a compelling argument for HIDs. And it has high beams as well? I wonder what the authority on lighting would have to say about this...vrg, is this good or bad?

btw, who makes that kit? Also, are you're lenses glass or plastic?

[SP-Boxer]

I don't know the brand of the kit. It only says it has a Philips IC inside.


It has High beam, because that's obliged overhere.

And my lenses are glass, because my car is EDM
But that shouldn't make a difference, because it's colder than your lights.

[Legacy777]

The only thing I can think of is if the kits have the HID arc relocated so it's in the spot where the halogen filament was. I'm sure it's not going to be exactly the same, but maybe it's close.

But according to Daniel Stern that's not really possible....so who knows.

[jamal]

In Europe illegal? That's bullsh*t...

If they are strict somewere, it's in the Netherlands! I drive around with my set for almost a year now. Light beam is perfect after adjusting the headlights.

You driving around with them doesn't make it legal. Look up the local lighting regulations and see what it says. They are illegal in the US and Europe tends to have stricter lighting laws.

[justin the subie]

interesting!!! anyone else going to try a kit?? i need high beams where i drive.. brighter light sure would be nice with out oncoming traffic flashing at me or the fuzz giving any greif...

[jamal]

not going to happen with one of these kits.

If you want to do it right:

1. aim the headlights properly
2. install Sylvania Xtravision bulbs
3. Clear headlight lenses through one of the various methods floating around
4. Install upgraded wiring harnesses for the headlights
5. Buy glass EDM headlights if you're still not happy with the low beams
5. Get good aux driving lights if you still need more light on top of high beams.

[justin the subie]

i instaled a set of high wattage bulbs and an aic wire kit on my n/a wagon.. it was better but if hids were installed properly it would be nice... maybe the best way is to cut apart some hid lenses and mount them in a stock lens... unfortunatly i think it would look like sh*t.. but what would i know

[evolutionmovement]

90mm Hellas.

[justin the subie]

ive been looking into getting these for awhile.. kinda nice they run the same style bulb as the headlights '92-'94

[justin the subie]

or a guy could run these........

[Aerotech]

I *think* that the better HID kits have shielding on the bulb, to cut light output to areas of the reflector that don't need it... effectively immitating the localized light source of a halogen filament.

That said, I wouldn't try to run these in USDM lights, simply because of the sloppy light distribution; you're still going to have light going where you don't want it. If you have EDM lights, the shielded HIDs could be viable, as long as you take care to re-aim the lights if needed; the upper cut-off on those lights is razor sharp.

I'm running a set of Hella FFs in the turn-signal bays. ('91 SS) Oval shape, *sorta* matches the shape of the openings. Real flame-throwers, I have them aimed for hi-beam use.

[SP-Boxer]

You driving around with them doesn't make it legal. Look up the local lighting regulations and see what it says. They are illegal in the US and Europe tends to have stricter lighting laws.

Every car sold before January 1st 2007 can be fitted with these kind a HID kits. Our cars have to be checked once a year. And if you drive illegal lights, you have to remove. Al the cars with HID kits pass that check. So I am 100% sure that they are legall here

[tris91ricer]

Wicked. Got a link for where you bought them? What's the part number on that box?

[beatersubi]

Anyone heard from vrg3 lately?

[Dynamic Entry]

Anyone heard from vrg3 lately?

No, and I have wondered why.

[SP-Boxer]

Wicked. Got a link for where you bought them? What's the part number on that box?

http://www.lee-electronics.nl/?c1=6&c2=8&c3=17


And I bought the H4 Bi 8000k


No partnumber on the box.
But there are lots of brands who sell kits like these.

[tris91ricer]

Guys, Vikash hasn't been around for nearly 2 years now. I believe he's moved on to something else. We don't officially have our very own lighting/electrical authority anymore, sorry.

deuchman, thanks for the link! I noticed they don't have their full english page up yet. Since most of us only speak english, and most definitely cannot write in deuch, could you perhaps draft an email to info@lee-electronics.nl
for the group, and ask if they know of a supplier in the States that sells this exact product?

Thanks!

[Adam West]

I'm sorry but isn't this the same type of product that Subaru tuning shops in the U.S. currently sell?

I think there are people on Nabisco that do these type of conversions all the time. I don't get what is special here beyond someone finally doing on on a Legacy and that person happens to be in Europe....

What am I missing?