'92 Legacy L - Trouble Code 13

Heads, valves, pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc...

Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators

Post Reply
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

'92 Legacy L - Trouble Code 13

Post by nik.ak »

My Legacy was running fine on Friday. On Saturday, I went to start it and got nothing but cranking - it would try to fire, but never took. Today, I finally figured out how to get the Trouble Codes to display. It returns a Trouble Code 13 - Cam Angle Sensor.

Where is the best place to start on figuring out what I need to do to get my car running again?

And I have to say that trying to do engine work outside in Alaska in the winter sucks. =/

Other info:
2.2L MPFI engine
New alternator (stock went out a month ago)
Just passed 100K miles
ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Post by ericem »

When was the last time you replaced the timing belt? Hopefully the belt didn't skip.
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)
log1call
Second Gear
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:22 am

Post by log1call »

Yup, you definatly need to pull three bolts out of a cam belt cover and check the cambelt is still working.

If the belt seems good you should check the cam sensor which is easy to get at just behind the left(as you are in the car), cam sprocket... at the top of the head. One bolt and the sensor pulls out backwards. The process to test them should be around somewhere.
glennda5id
First Gear
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Redondo Beach CA

Post by glennda5id »

The first thing I would do is disconnect the cam sensor plug and measure the resistance between the terminals. The plug is located underneath the throttle body. If you see an open or short its your cam sensor. If there is a reasonable resistance, not sure how much, but around a couple of kilo ohms, then I would check the timing belt.
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Awesome - thank you for all the very quick replies.

I'll have to hit my friends up for a multimeter and pull the sensor. I'd almost rather pay for the sensor than pull the timing belt - I'm pretty new to automotive repair.

I'll reply when I know more.
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Ok, neighbor got home and had a multimeter.

Pulled the cam angle sensor and tested it.

Got about 1.53 kilo ohms of resistance between Red and Yellow.
Got zero ohms of resistance between Red and Black, Yellow and Black, Yellow and engine well, Black and engine well.

Though I might not have got a good connection to the body.

So where do I go from here? It started snowing today, so checking the belt is going to be rough - but if the sensor is fine, I know I don't really have a choice.
ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Post by ericem »

Put on some nice gloves, scarf, hat, coat. Then your ready to go! That is what I have been doing lately. Actaully minus the accessories.
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)
glennda5id
First Gear
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Redondo Beach CA

Post by glennda5id »

Sounds like your CAM sensor is fine, which means you probably have a broken timing belt. What you need to do is pull the top two 10mm bolts off of either the left or right side timing cover. You should then be able to pull the timing cover back just enough to see if the belt looks intact or if it is broken. If you want to fully remove the left or right cover there is a third 10mm bolt on the bottom.
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

So should I pull the radiator before I try that? Also, it sounds like I do NOT need to pull the crank pulley to check the condition of the belt? Even though it really sounds like I will end up having to.
ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Post by ericem »

I think all you need to remove is the fans and you have enough room.. If you remove the rad, then you need to drain it etc. Then when you put it back in, need to add new fluid, burp the air out etc. Real pain. You might be able to get in there without removing the fans either. You do need to remove the crank pulley. You have a 5spd though right? Just stick it in 5th gear and get a torque wrench, should give you enough leverage. You will need to retorque it to 140ft-lbs. Put some oil or anti seize on the threads and clean them up good when you put it back. Good luck bud.
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Yeah, I meant the fans. -_-

And no, it's an AT.

I read you can disconnect the plug wires to keep make sure it doesn't start, then just give the motor a quick crank after wedging the breaker bar in there.

Also, should I replace the timing belt cover gasket? There's a lot of overspill around the oil fill neck.

Just trying to make sure I get everything I need in one trip since this is my only vehicle. I'll definitely check the belt before I buy one, though.
tahiti350
Third Gear
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:17 pm
Location: Spanaway/Tacoma, WA

Post by tahiti350 »

nik.ak wrote: I read you can disconnect the plug wires to keep make sure it doesn't start, then just give the motor a quick crank after wedging the breaker bar in there.
That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

I launched a ratchet on a Chevy Impala when I was lashing valves. Forgot to remove the ratchet before bumping the engine over. Didn't start it (coil wire was removed), but still dented the hood, gouged the fender and I never did find that 5/8" 1/2 drive socket... The ratchet and extension were about 50-75' from the car, if anyone had been standing there it would have killed them...
'90 Bermuda Blue L Wagon (Wife's),
Auto, AWD, Now with 275K + miles!



2005 Outback, 2.5 AWD (wife's new daily)
glennda5id
First Gear
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Redondo Beach CA

Post by glennda5id »

You do not need to remove anything accept the two small bolts I mentioned earlier to check the status of the belt. Before you start ripping your car apart, make sure the belt is broken. If the belt is not broken, then I would reset the ECU by removing power for a bit. Check the codes to make sure they have reset, then turn it over and see if the code comes back.
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

glennda5id wrote:You do not need to remove anything accept the two small bolts I mentioned earlier to check the status of the belt. Before you start ripping your car apart, make sure the belt is broken. If the belt is not broken, then I would reset the ECU by removing power for a bit. Check the codes to make sure they have reset, then turn it over and see if the code comes back.
Ahhh, kk. I'll do that later today when my neighbor gets home or s0 - I hate not having tools. -_-
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Ok, so I tried some starter fluid sprayed into the air intake - nothing.

I removed the top outside bolts on either side and pulled the cover back - belt is still going around the three gears and spins when the engine is cranked. Obviously can't tell from that angle if the belt is missing teeth or if it skipped.

Anything else I can check before towing it to a friend's place with a better selection of tools?
glennda5id
First Gear
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Redondo Beach CA

Post by glennda5id »

I would reset the codes by disconnecting the battery and waiting a while, ~30 minutes. Then check codes and make sure they are cleared. Then try to start. Then check codes again and see if 13 comes back.
log1call
Second Gear
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:22 am

Post by log1call »

Can you beg, borrow or steal a cam angle sensor to try in there? It is what the ecu reckons is wrong and it is one of the few sensors that will stop your car from running.

I know you checked it but it might have an intermittent contact or it could just be a weak signal.

At this stage, it's the next thing to try!
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

I'll pull the battery leads and see how it goes.

Unfortunately, I'm the only person I know with a similar-year Subaru. My friend who had a mid-90s wagon just sold it. :(
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Ok, so I:

1) Reconnected the battery leads.
2) Turned the key to On - CEL did not light.
3) Tried to start the car - turned over, did not catch.
4) Connected OBD wires.
5) Turned the key to On - CEL flashed steady on/off about 40 times before I turned the key off.

So now I'm completely at a loss for what it could be. >_<
glennda5id
First Gear
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm
Location: Redondo Beach CA

Post by glennda5id »

I was worried you were chasing a faulty code.

Next step, pull a spark plug. Put the plug back in the boot and lay the plug on the engine. Have someone crank the engine and verify that the spark plug is sparking.
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Kk, will get to that tomorrow. It's storming, after midnight, and I don't own a spark plug socket. -_-
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Sparking on the driver's side, both coils. Couldn't check the passenger side since I did it alone.

I was unable to pull the plugs, so I pulled the wires off the plugs, carefully inserted a screwdriver, and laid them above bolts. They both arced across to the bolt.

I'll be trying to get my car into the neighbor's garage this evening and have a better selection of tools. I'll try to pull the plugs and check the gap on them.

I've also been told I should check the crank sensor and the MAP sensor (though I wasn't sure if we have one) - and failing that, that I should check the timing to see if the belt skipped.

Ideas?
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Got it running!

Neighbor's friend came over, listened to it, got the air intake hose off, sprayed some starter fluid in there and it just about started. Disconnected the fuel filter, blew it out into a jar, and it came out the color of...well...it wasn't pretty. Kinda like the wood on a prefab computer desk. Anyways.

Reconnected the filter and it started right up.
ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Post by ericem »

There you go great to hear it was a simple issue! You should replace that fuel filter now.
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)
nik.ak
In Neutral
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:28 am

Post by nik.ak »

Yeah, so was I. lol

It's idling a little odd now - it drops down to about 650 RMP, then revs up to 750, then back to about 650. When I started the car after letting it run for 10-15 minutes, the idle eventually leveled out for a while, but then slowly started fluctuating again.

Could that just be the cold air and moisture? I have not had a chance to get it out on the road yet (snow plow blocked me in from behind and the guy who came over to help is blocking me in on the side), but I plan on getting it out at some point tonight, maybe to run out and grab a fuel filter.

EDIT:

So I got it out of it's spot and put about 10 miles through it. Didn't notice the idle problem the entire time, so it must have been the fact it sat for a week in the wind, rain, and snow.
Post Reply