Oh boy, Rod knock already?

[Baddog]

I just had a 93 Ej22t rebuilt using OEM bearings and all were in spec. I went to show a buddy of mine the car and got home and heard a loud knocking noise. It DOES NOT increase with revs however. It actually goes away with revs.

150 miles on the motor and not pushed past 3500rpm's yet. I know there are 2-3 bad HLA's on the side the noise is coming from.

Here is a video

[Baddog]

Update: Just went outside to do a little bit of testing. I confirmed again it goes away when the motor is revved. The valve tick noise is still there at all revs (of course).

I pulled each plug wire off one at a time. The knock sound went away when I did this. Regardless of which cylinder I pulled the plug wire from.

[Baddog]

50 views. And no one?

[rallyak]

Have you drained the oil to see if there was any metal? If its clean most likely it not lower end.
Since it goes away when you give it rpm I don't think it bottom end. I could be wrong, but when I f__ k up a rod bearing on my engine rpm made the knocking louder.
Is it 4eats or 5spd?
I've bought a car once that the previous owner said I can't put any more money in her I just replaced the Transmission and now the engine is knocking. Long story short,flex plate bolts were loose,It would knock at idle but under power no knock.

[Baddog]

5speed. And yeah oil swirl.doing a motor tear down

[rallyak]

I feel your pain, I've done that three times in one week. First time bad reman crank,
Second someone told me to use a curtain type of oil (non detergent oil) to help seat the rings. Very bad idea, it even warns you on the label DO NOT USE IN COMBUSTION ENGINE. Never used it before and I've built hundreds of engines, I should of known better.
Third I put a used crank in that was good (my original one back in) and it still going round and round, it's up to 500,000+ miles.

[Legacy777]

I'd definitely recommend checking or replacing the oil pump.

Keep us posted on what you find when you tear it down.

[Baddog]

Will do. Been meaning to finish the tear down. Just need to remove the intake manifold and split the block.

Will be split by Wednesday for sure. I am curious to what I find as well.

[Baddog]

So gents. Here is what I found today. Keep in mind I installed a BRAND new fuel filter when this motor was put in.

This is in all of the heads. Hard as a rock. Have to use a screw driver to break it off.


And traces of it in the fuel filter. Pull it out. Same color and hard texture.


Sugar in the gas tank? Whatever it is. I believe it is the reason the old heads locked up on the intake side.

[mike-tracy]

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed sugar, but some pics on google seem to back you up on that.

[Baddog]

Supposed-ed myth my ass.

Lost all respect for mythbusters. LOL!

Unless anyone else has an idea of what it means. What pics did you see Mike?

[mike-tracy]

Here are a couple random ones.




I don't think it's sugar per say, but something that was in the filter that separated. You should prob check your fuel pump to make sure the sock is free of obstructions or "goo," to be safe, though. Also, there's a certain engineer working in the petroleum industry who will likely chime in shortly.

[Baddog]

Was a brand new OEM filter. Went in with the motor. And the old motors intake valves locked up. This would explain it. 2 different filters. Same issue per say.

I pulled the pump. No goo on it. However the strainer had shiny crystals on it. Which I did not get a pic of.

Not saying its sugar for sure. But it's got to be something.

[Legacy777]

WOW!

Yeah I can't confirm that is sugar, but it is something. From what I've read, sugar doesn't dissolve in gasoline, but I would wonder if a liquid sweetener dumped into the gasoline would dissolve?

Did the crystals on the strainer look like sugar? I wonder if it's some kind of artificial sweetener.

However....since the fuel filter doesn't have crystals, but the hard textured goo, it's probable not sugar or sweetener because the temps would not have gotten up that high at the filter......or so I would think.


Anyway....yeah I'm not sure what it is, but it's something.

Did your previous engine have similar issues or a failure? How much gas was left in the tank from the old engine? Have you been getting gas at the same gas station? There may be some contamination at the station....

[Baddog]

This new motor only have 140 miles on it. Not 140k. But 140.

The previous motor when we bought the car had 0 compression on all cylinders. And get this. It had NO compression because all the intake valves were stuck open. Whatever this is. Is probably the cause of the last motor going. It would make sense.

[Legacy777]

Yes, I would agree with you.....but you didn't answer my question.....how much fuel was left in the tank and did you get fuel between the time of the engine rebuild and when you tore it down?

[Baddog]

Had about 1/8 tank. And no I did not get fuel until the new motor was done. I used the what was in the tank to run the new motor. Then went to the gas station right after. Hope that makes sense.

So yes I got gas after the motor rebuild. Before that. No

[Legacy777]

So you had about an 1/8 of a tank of the old gas and did fill up with new gas. How much gas did you run through before the engine starting knocking? 1/2 tank?

Is the station you put new gas in a station you regularly get gas at? Do you recall the last station or several stations you got gas at before the rebuild? Did the old motor die suddenly or was it a gradual issue?

[Someperson]

Karo syrup in the tank does this as well, and it's corn syrup so it prob will dissolve

[Baddog]

So you had about an 1/8 of a tank of the old gas and did fill up with new gas. How much gas did you run through before the engine starting knocking? 1/2 tank?

Is the station you put new gas in a station you regularly get gas at? Do you recall the last station or several stations you got gas at before the rebuild? Did the old motor die suddenly or was it a gradual issue?

We bought the car with a bad motor for cheap. Knowing it would need a rebuild. Didn't know why. But it was due to the intake valves sticking in all 4 cylinders. Each and every intake valve.

Yes we used about half a tank or so total. Yes we get gas there a lot as it's the only station by the garage. It's a Chevron gas station at that. Ran with premium.

Never was able to put gas into it prior to the rebuild as the motor did not run.

[Legacy777]

Ok.

That's interesting about Karo syrup....wonder how well that would dissolve in gas....

[Baddog]

Any suggestions on removing the sugar crap from the hard fuel lines?

[Legacy777]

If it's sugar based, you could try heat...boiling water, or maybe steam.

[Baddog]

Machine shop today said he has seen this before on older cars. He is pretty certain it's not old fuel or anything of that nature. He said if enough sugar got into the fuel system this is the outcome most of the time.

I am going to try heat and boiling water at the same time. Heat up the pipe while the water is running through to help flush it out.

Dropping gas tanks...SUCKS. Unless I did it the hard way. Couldn't find a DIY.

[Someperson]

Thanks, need to drop one soon... Dread...