ecu tuning, fcd

[chocboywndr]

Hi Guys,

I just bought Legacy with mods listed below it was a friends did some of the work ourselves like snorkus removal and intercooler install.

1992 Legacy Sports Sedan with 5-speed manual
Custom 3 inch Downpipe with high flow cat. and 2.5 inch stainless steel Vibrant muffler
Hallman Boost Controller set to 11-12psi
Autometer Sport Comp. Boost gauge
2002 USD WRX intercooler
WRX coolant tank
STI engine and transmission mounts
K&N air filter with snorkus removed
Cross-drilled Brembo front rotors

So my questions are as follows

1) ecu tuning options:My thoughts are that doing a bunch more mods without the ability to properly tune the car is silly since you would never see the full results. The stock ecu from all accounts is untuneable. So I am wondering from the guys who may have done a standalone what were the costs associated with the unit? Also I have read ej20 ecu with some modifications works is anyone doing this modification? Lastly the 91' manual ecu apparently has a removable chip and is able to be programmed where is best place to start the search for one of those.

2) I am wondering if anyone has used a check valve*(one way valve) as an fcd? I was debating between that and the turbo smart pneumatic one. Also what would be a safe boost level with current set up i have had varying answer from reading forums from 13-15lbs. Lastly could anyone give me educated guess on what range hp I might be in.

Thanks for the help
Boywndr

[wtdash]

Hi and Welcome to the LC Site.

Suggest you get your Search hat on, sit down, grab a drink and doing some looking around here. Lots of info on here that'll you want to get caught up on before you start spending any $$.

My responses below.

So my questions are as follows

1) ecu tuning options:My thoughts are that doing a bunch more mods without the ability to properly tune the car is silly since you would never see the full results. The stock ecu from all accounts is untuneable. So I am wondering from the guys who may have done a standalone what were the costs associated with the unit? Also I have read ej20 ecu with some modifications works is anyone doing this modification? Lastly the 91' manual ecu apparently has a removable chip and is able to be programmed where is best place to start the search for one of those.

---I'm biased as I have one installed, but for the easiest option (not necessarily the cheapest) do the EJ20G Rob Tune. If you want general EJ20G ECU info read my POST.

I have no standalone experience, but I've read you'll be in to it for $500-$1K - really depends on your tuning skills and what kind of deal you can find on the standalone. Plus, you still need the upgraded parts - turbo/injectors/etc. If you want an EM (engine management) challenge check out Megasquirt.

Piggy-backs are also an option, but you'll be into that for a few hundred $$ (@ least) but still need to get it tuned, too.

Some of the Legacy ECUs do have a slot for a chip, but currently there are no known chips that you can 'plug and play' new. A now defunct company called Revtronix built a chip compatible w/the Legacy turbo's ECU, but you'll only find those in used condition on here.

2) I am wondering if anyone has used a check valve*(one way valve) as an fcd? I was debating between that and the turbo smart pneumatic one. Also what would be a safe boost level with current set up i have had varying answer from reading forums from 13-15lbs. Lastly could anyone give me educated guess on what range hp I might be in.

--In the Turbo category on the main page of this site are two FCD options. You'll probably find some info on a 'check valve' doing a search on here - I'm not familiar w/it nor the Turbo Smart.

I personally wouldn't go over 13 psi w/your setup, and since it is only 1-2 over what you're set @ now w/your Hallman MBC not worth the trouble. Why? The ECU may not provide adequate fueling/timing adjustments. Here's one THREAD-(read the post from 'Farfrumwork')- but you'd also likely max out the stock injectors above 12 psi.

My guessestimate is you're about 160HP/180torque @ the WHEELS (remember, the stock 160hp/180torque is @ the CRANK).

GL,
TD

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

Regarding tuning.....save yourself a lot of money and headaches and just get a Robtune setup to run the STi 550 cc/min injectors & JECS MAF. It is a nearly plug & play option that will dramatically improve the performance of your turbo Legacy.

I am running a Link stand alone and while I am more or less happy with the ECU, it is not cheap and anything but plug & play. The ECU alone is around $1,700 range, depending on what level of the ECU you pick. There are some less expensive ECU's, but you do get what you pay for in terms of I/O and tuning software. Plus you need to install and rewire everything so you can use the stand alone, AND it's got to be tuned. That is really the big issue for me. If you decide to go with a stand alone you MUST have local tuning support, and the tuner MUST be familar with the ECU. Without that, it'll be a nightmare. I went through two tuners in Texas (one in Houston and one in Dallas) that just weren't as familar as they needed to be to tune the ECU. So I drove to Santa Rosa, CA to have the car tuned. Now after rebuilding the motor and going with forged internals and a cam the ECU needs to be retuned. I'm going to fly the tuner to Houston as that will be cheaper. Keep in mind a full stand alone tuning setup can be around $700. I've easily probably got over $3,000 into the stand alone engine management. The only reason I'm not running a Robtune is because it wasn't available when I was looking for engine management. If it were, I would've gone that route. The amount of money, ease of installation, and performance gains that the Robtune provides is unmatched by any other option out there currently available for the first gen legacy.


Regarding the FCD question, I wouldn't even think of messing with one untill you have a WB AFR gauge setup.

[chocboywndr]

Thanks for the info guys. it would appear that robtune is way to go. my question is Josh then do I also have to do the coil conversion along with new maf and bigger injectors. I am looking for a close to plug and play as I can get. I am not going for super crazy hp just nice quick ride, not that it is not quick already just want quicker. I am coming from an all motor honda background so learning on the fly with turbo and Subaru at same time.

[Legacy777]

Rob also sells a 4-2 igntion coil converter. So getting one of those as well would allow you to keep the stock coil pack setup.

[chocboywndr]

thanks Josh, you have any opinion in where you think hp is at right now.

[cj91legss]

I don't know what HP is sitting at right now, But when I drove mike-tracy's car with his robtune td05 and 550s, I was very impressed. It is way faster than my td04 stock ecu and stock boost. My car currently pulls on '09+ 2.5l WRXs.

[Legacy777]

Yeah I really don't know what the HP would be and am not good at guessing. These cars tend to feel faster than the actual HP numbers they put down because they are very torquey motors.

My HP/Torque #'s on my previous motor was 242 hp and 280 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels. That's a pretty substantial difference, and while you may say a V6 honda my have more HP, it's HP and torque #'s are at very high rpm and my max torque was around 4,000 rpm. That made for a very responsive daily driven car.

Here's the dyno plot so you can see how the curve looks. The drop off in the higher rpm is due to the heads. The Delta cams I installed should help the motor breathe better in the higher rpm range.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... _dyno2.jpg


Here are some other plots to compare my run against some other stock subies against my Legacy. The actual numbers aren't really that important it's how your numbers compare to the other cars on the same dyno. A stock STi may make 250 whp & torque on one dyno and 275 on another. So just having that reference when testing your car on a dyno is good to have.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... yno_plots/

[chocboywndr]

I am looking for closet plug play option to take advantage of mods. I am going try get most of of set up without internal work for now. It needs paint job and I am real big on handling so def need suspension work and stereo but I can install that myself.plus some rims so next summer will be costly so need to keep stuff tight without being cheap.

Boywndr

[cj91legss]

Keeping stuff tight and cheap while looking for power is close to impossible. Factory ecu and a vf39 with 440 injectors is a nice ride, if you wanna keep it simple and worry about looks instead.

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[chocboywndr]

I did say "keeping tight without being cheap". As I said I am new to turbo set ups and subaru. My background is all motor honda's and it took me years of research and learning to know what was good from what was trendy. Robtune to me seems a mandatory mod all my cars have been dyno tuned which I would have done with this car also but not an option. So i have find next best option which appears from research to be rob. What mods other than injectors , coil and jecs to accompany the tune is my question. Many seem to prefer vf34 to vf39 so that is my next decision. I may do internals 2 summers from now but i prefer to work with stock internals for now, I have no specific hp goal i just enjoy the build over time where i get is where i get. I am not doing it because i plan to race guys light to light, i do it because its fun. i just need to know limits of stock tranny clutch and stay below that for now.

Looks wise its not really a matter of choice as far as i see it. The car is rusting so paint is mandatory. I have the stock 15in rims on with winters so no choice there either. Springs are needed and sway bars the stock set up was not made to take advantage low center of gravity of boxer engine. A fast car that doesn't handle is a waste. Nothing like exploding out of a tight corner. Now some say stereo is optional but that is what I used to do for living. So every vehicle i have ever owned has had system some high end some simple, but only one speaker is working in the car now so gotta do something.

So I am just looking for advice from people in the know. so far you guys have been great. its fun learning new stuff.

Am i correct in saying the vf34 and vf39 bolt right on?

[cj91legss]

I misread your previous post I commented on, my bad.

If you're using the OEM intake system, then no the 34 and 39 do not bolt right on. You say you have a 2002 wrx intercooler, What turbo do you have installed?

[chocboywndr]

I have the vf 11 I believe that is what came stock.

[chocboywndr]

But I don't wanna change then change again. Bang for your buck is my thing not cheap

[cj91legss]

Yes, that is what came stock.

So, No the vf34-39 will not be bolt on. You will have to modify what ever y pipe coming off your vf11 to intercooler. Also the vf11 has the 90 degree inlet, so you would have to add a 2.25" silicone elbow (search around for td04 swaps) and you'll get an idea.

If you find the JDM td05-16g, it already has the 90 degree inlet, so there would be less modification. Also search up on the tmic swaps as there's alot of information on which turbos get swapped at the same time.

[wtdash]

HI,
Check out my POST HERE that shows the turbo differences and models.

What mods other than injectors , coil and jecs to accompany the tune is my question.

I'd recommend the 4to2 Ignition converter that Rob sells vs. hassling w/the coil on plug setup. It's 4 extra wires to hook up while you're doing the Rob tuned ECU install, so not tough - and only $70 w/the ECU/Tune purchase. Also, if you read my POST I listed in my first response above it will address other questions regarding the EJ20G ECU usage.

TD

[chocboywndr]

I was planning to get the 4-2 coil converter for sure. Ii had read your post when doing searches before i got the car couldnt find it again when i tried. The thing i have decided are must do's engine wise for spring 2014 are: robtune 550 with conversion coil, jecs green, 550 side inj, upgraded turbo not sure which one yet thinking 16g for easier install, lowering springs(i know not engine). Just got to price out and budget for it.

boywndr

[turbo970]

i wanna know how ya got that inter cooler hooked up to your vf 11 lol

[chocboywndr]

i really cant explain as i said i just bought car and did help my friend but was just extra pair hands. it does work well though.

[cj91legss]

Maybe you can take a couple pictures for turbo970, and the rest of the members that want to tackle a tmic on a vf11

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[chocboywndr]

i tried to post pics but not working will try again

[cj91legss]

You need to upload them to photobucket or some site like that. Then post the image code.

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[chocboywndr]

[chocboywndr]

no rims on it now he kept them for his 2006 legacy turbo

[cj91legss]

What about a pic of the cconnection coming off the turbo?

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